RE: A wee dram (or two hundred & fifty)

From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Sep 20 09:43:39 2000 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-20000829) id JAA10657; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 09:37:37 +1200 Received: from fclaklmr02.fcl.co.nz ([202.14.23.202] (may be forged)) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-20000829) with SMTP id JAA10654 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 09:37:31 +1200 Received: from falaklex00.falum.co.nz (10.8.1.28) by fclaklmr02.fcl.co.nz Wednesday, September 20, 2000 09:27:20 Message-ID: Received: by falaklex00.fcl.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 09:30:27 +1200 Message-ID: <311B3C3DD32FD311B33900805F770A720226161E@falaklex00.fcl.co.nz> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 09:30:24 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C02280.D22A9000" Subject: RE: A wee dram (or two hundred & fifty) From: "Andrew Withy (FAL AKL)" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C02280.D22A9000 Content-Type: text/plain I'm not sure we need a conversion table. What purpose does it serve? I put together a list to help me figure it out. Apart from dealing with long distances in terms of S/Wing Rank, which I've heard used, but didn't have the figures in my head, and the occasional use of acres for Bless Crops, most of these figures are fairly intuitive. Maybe it'll help people working out what 1,000 gallons of bound water a foot high will do on a hex map? (answer 1,000/7.8/20 ~ 6 hexes) Anyway, in case others think its useful... --------------------- Distance 12 inches = 1 foot 3 feet = 1 yard 3 1/3 feet = 1 elvish yard (1 "meter", from some poetic reference? 3 syllables to the foot, 10 syllables to the line? Silverfoam, help!) 5 feet = 1 hex 3 elvish yards = 2 hexes = 10 feet 100 yards = 1 minutes walk 110 yards = safe range for most spells. 375 yards = max bow range 5280 feet = 1760 yards = 16 x safe spell range = 1 mile 6080 feet = 2027 yards = 1.15 miles = 1 naut. mile 105 miles = Rank 5 Wings 220 miles = Rank 10 Wings 525 miles = Rank 20 Wings Weights 1 pennyweight = 1 silver penny = 1 gold shilling 2 penny weight = 1 truesilver guinea 20 pennyweight = 1 ounce 320 pennyweight = 16 ounces = 1 pound ~2000 pounds = 1 ton Fluid Volumes 16 fluid ounces = 1 pint 2 pints = 1 quart 8 pints = 4 quarts = 1 gallon 44 gallons = 1 barrel (weighs 352 lbs) 1,000 gallons = 1 pond Area 9 sq feet = 1 sq yard 20 square feet = 2.2 yards ~1 hex 21.78 sq feet = 2.42 yards = 1 hex 150 square feet ~ 1 megahex 4840 sq yards = 2000 hexes = 1 acre 640 acres = 1 sq mile Speed 1.5 TMR = 1 mph 1 nautical mile / hour = 1 knot 25 knots = max boat speed 30 mph = min Wing speed 760 mph = speed of sound Money 4 copper farthings = 1 silver penny 12 silver pennies = 1 gold shilling 252 sp = 21 gold shillings = 1 true silver guinea 320 sp = 1 pound Combined Measures 1 fl ounce of water = 1 ounce 1 cubic foot of ice = 47.2 lbs (~ 5.9 gallons when melted) 1 cubic foot of water = 62.4 lbs ~ 7.8 gallons 1 lb of silver = 320sp 1 lb of gold = 3840sp 1 lb of truesilver = 40320sp (ignoring drams, chains, furlongs, stones, hundredweights, etc. that we don't use in DQ) Some figures from my head, so apologies for numerical inaccuracies, but then the exact numbers don't matter anyway :) --------------------- Andrew > -----Original Message----- > I still think a Weights and Measures Appendix would be a good idea. As > well > as dropping potion volumes to the fluid ounce level instead of half pints. > > Pints are for beer and beverages, not potions and poisons... > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C02280.D22A9000 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: A wee dram (or two hundred & fifty)

I'm not sure we need = a conversion table. What purpose does it serve? I put together a list = to help me figure it out. Apart from dealing with long distances in = terms of S/Wing Rank, which I've heard used, but didn't have the = figures in my head, and the occasional use of acres for Bless Crops, = most of these figures are fairly intuitive. Maybe it'll help people = working out what 1,000 gallons of bound water a foot high will do on a = hex map? (answer 1,000/7.8/20 ~ 6 hexes) Anyway, in case others think = its useful...

---------------------
Distance
12 inches =3D 1 = foot
3 feet =3D 1 = yard
3 1/3 feet =3D 1 = elvish yard (1 "meter", from some poetic reference? 3 = syllables to the foot, 10 syllables to the line? Silverfoam, = help!)

5 feet =3D 1 = hex
3 elvish yards =3D = 2 hexes =3D 10 feet
100 yards =3D 1 = minutes walk
110 yards =3D safe = range for most spells.
375 yards =3D max = bow range
5280 feet =3D 1760 = yards =3D 16 x safe spell range =3D 1 mile
6080 feet =3D 2027 = yards =3D 1.15 miles =3D 1 naut. mile
105 miles =3D Rank = 5 Wings
220 miles =3D Rank = 10 Wings
525 miles =3D Rank = 20 Wings

Weights
1 pennyweight =3D 1 = silver penny =3D 1 gold shilling
2 penny weight =3D = 1 truesilver guinea
20 pennyweight =3D = 1 ounce
320 pennyweight =3D = 16 ounces =3D 1 pound
~2000 pounds =3D 1 = ton

Fluid Volumes
16 fluid ounces =3D = 1 pint
2 pints =3D 1 = quart
8 pints =3D 4 = quarts =3D 1 gallon
44 gallons =3D 1 = barrel (weighs 352 lbs)
1,000 gallons =3D 1 = pond

Area
9 sq feet =3D 1 sq = yard
20 square feet =3D = 2.2 yards ~1 hex
21.78 sq feet =3D = 2.42 yards =3D 1 hex
150 square feet ~ 1 = megahex
4840 sq yards = =3D 2000 hexes =3D 1 acre
640 acres =3D 1 sq = mile

Speed
1.5 TMR =3D 1 = mph
1 nautical mile / = hour =3D 1 knot
25 knots =3D max = boat speed
30 mph =3D min Wing = speed
760 mph =3D speed = of sound

Money
4 copper farthings = =3D 1 silver penny
12 silver pennies = =3D 1 gold shilling
252 sp =3D 21 gold = shillings =3D 1 true silver guinea
320 sp =3D 1 = pound

Combined = Measures
1 fl ounce of water = =3D 1 ounce
1 cubic foot of ice = =3D 47.2 lbs (~ 5.9 gallons when melted)
1 cubic foot of = water =3D 62.4 lbs ~ 7.8 gallons
1 lb of silver =3D = 320sp
1 lb of gold =3D = 3840sp
1 lb of truesilver = =3D 40320sp

(ignoring drams, = chains, furlongs, stones, hundredweights, etc. that we don't use in = DQ)

Some figures from my = head, so apologies for numerical inaccuracies, but then the exact = numbers don't matter anyway :)
---------------------
Andrew

-----Original Message-----
I still think a Weights and Measures = Appendix would be a good idea. As well
as dropping potion volumes to the = fluid ounce level instead of half pints.
Pints are for beer and beverages, not = potions and poisons...

------_=_NextPart_001_01C02280.D22A9000-- -- to unsubscribe see http://www.kurahaupo.gen.nz/mailing-lists.html -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Sep 20 10:13:45 2000 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-20000829) id KAA10915; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:09:20 +1200 Received: from akl-notes2.aj.co.nz (akl-notes.aj.co.nz [202.27.194.165]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-20000829) with SMTP id KAA10912 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:09:16 +1200 Received: from akl-notes.aj.co.nz ([192.168.4.165]) by akl-notes2.aj.co.nz (Lotus Domino Release 5.0.4) with ESMTP id 2000092010095101:17233 ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:09:51 +1200 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.4 June 8, 2000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:03:35 +1200 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on akl-notes.aj.co.nz/AJNzl/NZ(Release 5.0.4 |June 8, 2000) at 20/09/2000 10:03:36, Serialize complete at 20/09/2000 10:03:36, Itemize by SMTP Server on akl-notes2/AJNzl/NZ(Release 5.0.4 |June 8, 2000) at 20/09/2000 10:09:51, Serialize by Router on akl-notes2/AJNzl/NZ(Release 5.0.4 |June 8, 2000) at 20/09/2000 10:09:52, Serialize complete at 20/09/2000 10:09:52 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 00796225CC25695F_=" Subject: RE: A wee dram (or two hundred & fifty) From: Rosemary_Mansfield/AJNzl/NZ@AJ.CO.NZ To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 00796225CC25695F_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" One reason for NOT changing from imperial to any 'easier' system is that most diaries, dictionaries and cookbooks have dinky imperial -> metric conversion tables so it is relatively easy to find stuff if you need it (except for knots, but who wants to travel by sea anyway? ). NB Andrew's list of useful measurements is great. I'll put this as extra page in the Players Guide : ) Rosemary "Michael Parkinson" Sent by: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz 19/09/2000 16:32 Please respond to dq To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz cc: Subject: RE: A wee dram (or two hundred & fifty) > As for potions, perhaps fluid oz would be the most appropriate unit, > instead of all those painful fractions. There are (as I recall) > 20 fl oz in > the pint. Historically a fluid ounce WAS an ounce [avoirdupois] of pure water; just as a fluid dram WAS an dram of pure water [1/16th of an oz. avoir.] Hence 16 [fluid] ounces make 1 pint, if a pint weighs almost exactly a pound which was the case with the traditional Wine measure. It is the pint, which dates from about the 13th cent., that has changed so much. And unfortunately NZ pints were the imperial (1826) measure of 34.66 cubic inches. -- Pity that the word (O.E. ynce; L. uncia) meant a twelfth part (not a sixteenth). I suggest that we adopt the "pint" which weighs a "pound" and divide it (or each) into ounces -- preferably 12; the same way a foot is divided into 12 inches. Aside: this is why "Troy" & "Tower" measurement is superior (1 lb = 12 ounces; 1 ounce = 20 pennyweights; 240 pennies = 1 pound as a monetary measure and weight 1 pound). Unfortunately 1 pound avoirdupois (= 16 oz avoirdupois) of equals NEITHER Tower pound of 5400 grains [named after the standard weight in the Tower of London.] NOR the Troy pound of 5760 grains. It is left to the reader to prove that 1 oz does not equal 1 oz. i.e. 1 lb avoir. = 14.5833 oz. Troy & conversely 1 lb Troy = 13.165714 oz. avoir Btw, the roman libra (of about 327.25 g) equals none of the above. > A potion might be as little as one or two fl. oz. Which makes > sense when you consider the amounts of medicine the doctor > prescribes for us to take. (A tablespoon is 15ml, roughly half a fluid ounce). I tend to agree: the mystique of the apothecary's shelf of tinctures disappears when you realise that they equate to individual doses under our system. I'd prefer a potion to be a smallish measure of fluid (possibly alcoholic) in an interesting flask. Small enough to be added to a reasonably-sized goblet of wine, or whatever ... > Alternatively, we could always go metric... Heaven forfend!. You're as bad as the Germans who have redefined the pfund (pound) as exactly 500 grams. regards, Michael Btw, an Ounce is also less than a Pard or a Lyoun. -- to unsubscribe see http://www.kurahaupo.gen.nz/mailing-lists.html -- --=_alternative 00796225CC25695F_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
One reason for NOT changing from imperial to any 'easier' system is that most diaries, dictionaries and cookbooks have dinky imperial -> metric conversion tables so it is relatively easy to find stuff if you need it (except for knots, but who wants to travel by sea anyway? ).

NB Andrew's list of useful measurements is great. I'll put this as extra page in the Players Guide : )

Rosemary

"Michael Parkinson" <m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz>
Sent by: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz

19/09/2000 16:32
Please respond to dq

To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
cc:
Subject: RE: A wee dram (or two hundred & fifty)

> As for potions, perhaps fluid oz would be the most appropriate unit,
> instead of all those painful fractions. There are (as I recall)
> 20 fl oz in
> the pint.

Historically a fluid ounce WAS an ounce [avoirdupois] of pure water;
just as a fluid dram WAS an dram of pure water [1/16th of an oz. avoir.]
Hence 16 [fluid] ounces make 1 pint, if a pint weighs almost exactly a
pound which was the case with the traditional Wine measure.

It is the pint, which dates from about the 13th cent., that has changed so
much. And unfortunately NZ pints were the imperial (1826) measure of 34.66
cubic inches. -- Pity that the word (O.E. ynce; L. uncia) meant a twelfth
part (not a sixteenth).

I suggest that we adopt the "pint" which weighs a "pound" and divide it (or
each) into ounces -- preferably 12; the same way a foot is divided into 12
inches.

Aside: this is why "Troy" & "Tower" measurement is superior (1 lb = 12
ounces; 1 ounce = 20 pennyweights; 240 pennies = 1 pound as a monetary
measure and weight 1 pound).

Unfortunately 1 pound avoirdupois (= 16 oz avoirdupois) of equals NEITHER
Tower pound of 5400 grains [named after the standard weight in the Tower of
London.] NOR the Troy pound of 5760 grains. It is left to the reader to
prove that 1 oz does not equal 1 oz.
i.e. 1 lb avoir. = 14.5833 oz. Troy & conversely
1 lb Troy = 13.165714 oz. avoir
Btw, the roman libra (of about 327.25 g) equals none of the above.

> A potion might be as little as one or two fl. oz. Which makes
> sense when you consider the amounts of medicine the doctor
> prescribes for us to take. (A tablespoon is 15ml, roughly half a fluid
ounce).

I tend to agree: the mystique of the apothecary's shelf of tinctures
disappears when you realise that they equate to individual doses under our
system. I'd prefer a potion to be a smallish measure of fluid (possibly
alcoholic) in an interesting flask. Small enough to be added to a
reasonably-sized goblet of wine, or whatever ...

> Alternatively, we could always go metric...

Heaven forfend!. You're as bad as the Germans who have redefined the pfund
(pound) as exactly 500 grams.

regards, Michael

Btw, an Ounce is also less than a Pard or a Lyoun.

-- to unsubscribe see http://www.kurahaupo.gen.nz/mailing-lists.html --

--=_alternative 00796225CC25695F_=-- -- to unsubscribe see http://www.kurahaupo.gen.nz/mailing-lists.html -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Sep 20 10:28:34 2000 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-20000829) id KAA11018; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:21:58 +1200 Received: from westpac.co.nz (firewall1.westpac.co.nz [210.55.236.18]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-20000829) with ESMTP id KAA11015 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:21:54 +1200 Received: by firewall1.westpac.co.nz id <32298>; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:23:07 +1200 X-Lotus-FromDomain: WESTPACTRUST Message-Id: <00Sep20.102307nzst.32298@firewall1.westpac.co.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:23:07 +1200 Subject: RE: A wee dram (or two hundred & fifty) From: "Mark Simpson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz What about roods and perches? I am outraged that vital measures seem to have been omitted from the Andrews table! ----------------------------------------------------------------- The contents of this e-mail are confidential to Westpac Banking Corporation. If you have received this communication by mistake, please advise the sender immediately and delete the message and any attachments. The views expressed in this e-mail are not necessarily the views of Westpac Banking Corporation. Westpac Banking Corporation is incorporated in New South Wales, Australia. ----------------------------------------------------------------- -- to unsubscribe see http://www.kurahaupo.gen.nz/mailing-lists.html -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Sep 20 10:58:32 2000 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-20000829) id KAA11206; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:51:18 +1200 Received: from fclaklmr02.fcl.co.nz ([202.14.23.202] (may be forged)) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-20000829) with SMTP id KAA11203 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:51:15 +1200 Received: from falaklex00.falum.co.nz (10.8.1.28) by fclaklmr02.fcl.co.nz Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:42:13 Message-ID: Received: by falaklex00.fcl.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:45:17 +1200 Message-ID: <311B3C3DD32FD311B33900805F770A7202261621@falaklex00.fcl.co.nz> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:45:16 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C0228B.47B84670" Subject: RE: A wee dram (or two hundred & fifty) From: "Andrew Withy (FAL AKL)" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0228B.47B84670 Content-Type: text/plain Neither roods (1/4 acre) or perches (5.5 yards) are used in spell descriptions. Acres are (another reason to burn witches). For those like Mark who insist on Firkins, Kips, Slugs, Tods, etc., you can have http://home.clara.net/brianp/quickref.html - I don't want it! If any units of measure are used in spell descriptions which I didn't include (I didn't bother to check), stick them in. Andrew > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Simpson [SMTP:Mark_Simpson@westpactrust.co.nz] > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:23 AM > To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > Subject: RE: A wee dram (or two hundred & fifty) > > What about roods and perches? I am outraged that vital measures seem to > have been omitted from the Andrews table! > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > The contents of this e-mail are confidential to Westpac Banking > Corporation. If you have received this communication by mistake, > please advise the sender immediately and delete the message and > any attachments. > The views expressed in this e-mail are not necessarily the views of > Westpac Banking Corporation. > Westpac Banking Corporation is incorporated in New South Wales, Australia. > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > -- to unsubscribe see http://www.kurahaupo.gen.nz/mailing-lists.html -- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C0228B.47B84670 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: A wee dram (or two hundred & fifty)

Neither roods (1/4 = acre) or perches (5.5 yards) are used in spell descriptions. Acres are = (another reason to burn witches).

For those like Mark = who insist on Firkins, Kips, Slugs, Tods, etc., you can have http://home.clara.net/brianp/quickref.html - I = don't want it!

If any units of = measure are used in spell descriptions which I didn't include (I didn't = bother to check), stick them in.

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From:   Mark Simpson = [SMTP:Mark_Simpson@westpactrust.co.nz]
Sent:   Wednesday, September 20, 2000 10:23 AM
To:     dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject:       = RE: A wee dram (or two hundred & = fifty)

What about roods and perches? I am = outraged that vital measures seem to
have been omitted from the = Andrews table!
---------------------------------------------------------= --------
The contents of this e-mail are = confidential to Westpac Banking
Corporation. If you have = received this communication by mistake,
please advise the sender immediately = and delete the message and
any attachments.
The views expressed in this e-mail = are not necessarily the views of
Westpac Banking Corporation.
Westpac Banking Corporation is = incorporated in New South Wales, Australia.
---------------------------------------------------------= --------

-- to unsubscribe see http://www.kurahaupo.gen.nz/mailing-lists.html = --

------_=_NextPart_001_01C0228B.47B84670-- -- to unsubscribe see http://www.kurahaupo.gen.nz/mailing-lists.html -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Sep 20 11:14:05 2000 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-20000829) id KAA11263; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:59:42 +1200 Received: from smtp4.ihug.co.nz (smtp4.ihug.co.nz [203.109.252.5]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-20000829) with ESMTP id KAA11260 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:59:39 +1200 Received: from fiona (203-109-144-43.akl.ihugultra.co.nz [203.109.144.43]) by smtp4.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA11802 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:55:42 +1200 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:55:42 +1200 Message-Id: <200009192255.KAA11802@smtp4.ihug.co.nz> X-Sender: fiona@pop.ihug.co.nz X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: A wee dram (or two hundred & fifty) From: "Fiona M.M.Cole" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz At 10:23 20/09/00 +1200, you wrote: >What about roods and perches? I am outraged that vital measures seem to >have been omitted from the Andrews table! You need to get out more Mark Fi -- to unsubscribe see http://www.kurahaupo.gen.nz/mailing-lists.html -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Sep 20 11:16:10 2000 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-20000829) id LAA11301; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:03:54 +1200 Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (mailhost.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.1.4]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-20000829) with ESMTP id LAA11298 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:03:51 +1200 Received: from sci4 (lbr-122-42.lbrsc.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.122.42]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2/8.9.2-ua) with SMTP id KAA02586 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:59:51 +1200 (NZST) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:58:56 +1200 Message-ID: <000601c0228d$305da330$2a7ad882@sci4> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Subject: RE: A wee dram (or two hundred & fifty) From: "Michael Parkinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > What about roods and perches? I am outraged that vital measures seem to > have been omitted from the Andrews table! Resisting the temptation to tell people what to do about their ponds (not to mention exactly how to perch on one's rod), the important point is that there should be a mixture of units in the Baronies -- probably mostly derived for the old kingdom measurements. I'm surprised that the Regent (in the name of the young King) hasn't issued new standards for the New Western Kingdom. The reason why there were standards established in the medieval world was entirely for commercial reasons: principally to regulate the "value" of money & other important trade goods. At the least I suggest that the Duke of Seagate, as ruler of a trading city, established Seagate measures. e.g. This is decreed to be the weight of a pound; This is decreed to be the length of the Foot (or Ell, or whatever); ** One pint is the volume of one pound of beer which passes the leather-britches standard. The point I tried to make yesterday is could we please say that an ounce is 1/12 of a pound; not 1/16th -- there is historical real-world precedent (from Ancient Rome onwards); and the maths is MUCH simpler & more practical when dealing with fractions. I didn't clearly explain that the Old English ynce means BOTH "ounce" and "inch" (i.e. 1/12th of the standard unit). regards, Michael ** Footnote: not doubt the Technomages _define_ a foot as 1/25th of maximum range of a non-multiple-effect Rank 0 counterspell! Btw, although I'm anti-metric, there were some precedent the "MILE" was originally 1,000 paces (mille passus) = 1,618 yards. The modern mile (1760 yards) was chosen to coincide with 8 fulongs -- and the furlong was defined in terms of acres, poles, rods, or perches .... -- to unsubscribe see http://www.kurahaupo.gen.nz/mailing-lists.html -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Sep 20 11:43:45 2000 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-20000829) id LAA11547; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:37:37 +1200 Received: from fclaklmr02.fcl.co.nz ([202.14.23.202] (may be forged)) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-20000829) with SMTP id LAA11544 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:37:29 +1200 Received: from falaklex00.falum.co.nz (10.8.1.28) by fclaklmr02.fcl.co.nz Wednesday, September 20, 2000 11:28:19 Message-ID: Received: by falaklex00.fcl.co.nz with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) id ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:31:24 +1200 Message-ID: <311B3C3DD32FD311B33900805F770A7202261622@falaklex00.fcl.co.nz> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:31:24 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C02291.B9AA81A0" Subject: RE: A wee dram (or two hundred & fifty) From: "Andrew Withy (FAL AKL)" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C02291.B9AA81A0 Content-Type: text/plain 1) why change from 1/16 to 1/12th of a pound? The maths is the same - you add the ounces up until they reach 16 (or 12), then you say one pound. What complex math is done with ounces in people's heads? The only use would be for money, where it is already established (in the pricelist) what the value of so many pounds of silver, gold, etc are worth, to save us the math. The two systems are as complex, and we've lived with 1:16 for the last century or two, so we don't need to explain to new players "oh, no because of the new Aquilan King, we only have 12 ounces to the pound". 2) More importantly, as a player, I'll lose AG 26 because of the weight of my amulets & rings if we change to 12 ounces to the pound! :) Andrew > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Parkinson [SMTP:m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz] > The point I tried to make yesterday is could we please say that an ounce > is > 1/12 of a pound; not 1/16th -- there is historical real-world precedent > (from Ancient Rome onwards); and the maths is MUCH simpler & more > practical > when dealing with fractions. > I didn't clearly explain that the Old English ynce means BOTH "ounce" > and > "inch" (i.e. 1/12th of the standard unit). > > regards, Michael > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C02291.B9AA81A0 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: A wee dram (or two hundred & fifty)

1) why change from = 1/16 to 1/12th of a pound? The maths is the same - you add the ounces = up until they reach 16 (or 12), then you say one pound. What complex = math is done with ounces in people's heads? The only use would be for = money, where it is already established (in the pricelist) what the = value of so many pounds of silver, gold, etc are worth, to save us the = math. The two systems are as complex, and we've lived with 1:16 for the = last century or two, so we don't need to explain to new players = "oh, no because of the new Aquilan King, we only have 12 ounces to = the pound".

2) More importantly, = as a player, I'll lose AG 26 because of the weight of my amulets & = rings if we change to 12 ounces to the pound! :)

Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Parkinson = [SMTP:m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz]
The point I tried to make yesterday = is could we please say that an ounce is
1/12 of a pound; not 1/16th -- there = is historical real-world precedent
(from Ancient Rome onwards); and the = maths is MUCH simpler & more practical
when dealing with fractions.
I didn't clearly explain that the Old = English ynce means BOTH "ounce" and
"inch" (i.e. 1/12th of the = standard unit).

regards, Michael

------_=_NextPart_001_01C02291.B9AA81A0-- -- to unsubscribe see http://www.kurahaupo.gen.nz/mailing-lists.html -- From owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Wed Sep 20 13:28:34 2000 Received: (from bin@localhost) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-20000829) id NAA12395; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:15:16 +1200 Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (mailhost.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.1.4]) by mail.sf.org.nz (8.8.6/NZSFI-20000829) with ESMTP id NAA12392 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:15:12 +1200 Received: from sci4 (lbr-122-42.lbrsc.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.122.42]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (8.9.2/8.9.2/8.9.2-ua) with SMTP id NAA28099 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:11:12 +1200 (NZST) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 13:10:16 +1200 Message-ID: <000c01c0229f$8999b3f0$2a7ad882@sci4> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Subject: RE: A wee dram (or two hundred & fifty) From: "Michael Parkinson" To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz Sender: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Errors-To: owner-dq@dq.sf.org.nz Precedence: bulk X-Loop: dq@dq.sf.org.nz X-Requests: To unsubscribe from this list, or change your subscription address, send a request to dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz. To unsubscribe from all lists on this site, send a request to all-request@dq.sf.org.nz. Reply-To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz > 1) why change from 1/16 to 1/12th of a pound? The maths is the same - you > add the ounces up until they reach 16 (or 12), then you say one > pound. What if you have X rune sticks (twigs) at Y ounces, plus so many ounces of this herb, & that & the other, ... . Dividing a number by 12 is much easier than by 16. One can even do it in one's head. You may recall that 1 week's iron rations used to be 92 ounces or some such -- I bet most players got the weight in pounds wrong. 12 allows for thinks to be reckoned by the dozen, for us to deal in 3rds of a pound, as well as halves & quarters, etc. 16 ONLY permits halves, quarters, etc. Hence the recent suggestion that a herbalist potion weighs 1/4 pound -- probably because 1/2 is too much and 1/8th was perhaps too small, & anything else in that range is impossible to calculate without a spreadsheet. As a point of reference quarter of an Imperial pint is about 150ml. A quarter of a U.S. pint [which if I remember correctly is only between 1& 2% more than a pound] is about 115ml. Using 12 oz to the pint/pound means we could almost instantaneously deal with ANY reasonable number of ounces (say 150 or less) & HALF the possible number of archaic ounces are multiples of 2, 3, 4, 6, 8, 12 -- i.e., simple fractions of pounds (other than 12ths) As opposed to QUARTER of the possible number avoirdupois which are multiples of 2,4,8,16 -- -- i.e., simple fractions of pounds (other than 16ths) > What > complex math is done with ounces in people's heads? The only use would be > for money, where it is already established (in the pricelist) what the > value of so many pounds of silver, gold, etc are worth, to save us the > math Sorry? you think a table that explains that 1 lb of silver is worth ... [excuse the slight pause as I calculate 16*20 = 320 = 240 + 60 = 240 + 5*12] �1 5s. is much clearer than the equivalence 1lb [1 pound] of silver is worth �1 [1 pound] ??? And obviously 1lb of gold is worth �12 ... Why, you wouldn't need to be flicking through your manual for the conversion factor that you *know* is in there, but can't find just at the moment. The two systems are as complex, and we've lived with 1:16 for the > last century or two, so we don't need to explain to new players "oh, no > because of the new Aquilan King, we only have 12 ounces to the pound". If you want to. Or we could say its a GAME tweak which makes things easier & more practical (& more sensible!) rather than the extant rule -- a good reason for changing ANY rule. As far as I'm aware, none the changes to spells, for example, have been blamed on the Regent. Frankly, I doubt you'd be able to find more than 3 *players* in the guild who could intuitively estimate within FIFTY PERCENT (!) how many 5 cent coins you would need to weigh an ounce. > 2) More importantly, as a player, I'll lose AG 26 because of the > weight of my amulets & rings if we change to 12 ounces to the pound! :) Congratulations. Like me, you are clearly one of the few players who bothers to keep track of your ounces. > Andrew > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Parkinson [SMTP:m.parkinson@auckland.ac.nz] > The point I tried to make yesterday is could we please say that > an ounce is > 1/12 of a pound; not 1/16th -- there is historical real-world precedent > (from Ancient Rome onwards); and the maths is MUCH simpler & > more practical > when dealing with fractions. > I didn't clearly explain that the Old English ynce means BOTH > "ounce" and > "inch" (i.e. 1/12th of the standard unit). > regards, Michael > -- to unsubscribe see http://www.kurahaupo.gen.nz/mailing-lists.html --