Subject[dq]
FromJonathan Bean
DateMon, 5 Sep 2005 12:06:13 +1200
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I think they way we do things needs to be looked at.

 

Perceived problem:

DQ rules and multi-game content end up being "stalled" at best and often end
up as 'death by committee.'

 

Rune College has had over 5 years and over 3 sets of committees work on it
and zip.

I think things end up with no real champion that is willing to do the very
real hard work to move it forward.

I think this is often because the idea that had has been effectively watered
down by the committee in an attempt to keep all people happy.

 

I am not suggesting a fix or salutation to a problem here in this post, but
I am asking:

Do others also think this is a problem?

 

 

 

Jonathan Bean

 

Business Development Manager

TME - Its all about time

Phone 966 1656         PO Box 35902, Browns Bay

Fax 448 1051           Auckalnd, New Zealand

Mob 021 173 4060       www.tme.co.nz

Free 0800 55 33 66

 


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I think they way we do things needs to be =
looked at.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Perceived =
problem:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>DQ rules and multi-game content end up being =
&#8220;stalled&#8221;
at best and often end up as &#8216;death by =
committee.&#8217;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName =
w:st=3D"on"><font size=3D2
  face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Rune</span></font></st1:Plac=
eName><font
 size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>
 <st1:PlaceType =
w:st=3D"on">College</st1:PlaceType></span></font></st1:place><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>
has had over 5 years and over 3 sets of committees work on it and =
zip.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I think things end up with no real champion =
that is
willing to do the very real hard work to move it =
forward.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I think this is often because the idea that =
had has
been effectively watered down by the committee in an attempt to keep all =
people
happy.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I am not suggesting a fix or salutation to a =
problem
here in this post, but I am asking:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Do others also think this is a =
problem?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Jonathan Bean</span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Business Development =
Manager</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>TME - Its all about time</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Phone <st1:Street =
w:st=3D"on"><st1:address
 w:st=3D"on">966 1656&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; PO =
Box
  35902</st1:address></st1:Street>, <st1:place =
w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on">Browns</st1:PlaceName>
 <st1:PlaceType =
w:st=3D"on">Bay</st1:PlaceType></st1:place></span></font><span
lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Fax 448
1051&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<st1:place
w:st=3D"on"><st1:City w:st=3D"on">Auckalnd</st1:City>, =
<st1:country-region w:st=3D"on">New
  Zealand</st1:country-region></st1:place></span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Mob 021 173
4060&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;www.tme.co.nz</span></font>=
<span
lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Free 0800 55 33 =
66</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

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-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
SubjectRe: [dq] [dq]
FromAndrew\ Withy\ \(DSL\ AK\)
DateMon, 5 Sep 2005 12:35:38 +1200
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The reason why we have had consultation is because when one person has
gone away and worked on an idea in isolation, the result often ends up
alienating many people, so all their hard work is lost. The "committee"
or more accurately, consultative approach is to prevent someone losing
touch with the group.
=20
As far as I can tell, Rune was a victim of other problems. Two or three
people chose to work together to get creative synergy, and then it never
quite got to the polished stage.
=20
I'm not aware of any multi-game content suffering from death by
committee. If so, this is presumably the campaign commitee's fault -
please let us know specifics where we have failed.
=20
Andrew
=20

	-----Original Message-----
	From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On
Behalf Of Jonathan Bean
	Sent: Monday, 5 September 2005 12:06 p.m.
	To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
	Subject: [dq]=20
=09
=09

	I think they way we do things needs to be looked at.

	=20

	Perceived problem:

	DQ rules and multi-game content end up being "stalled" at best
and often end up as 'death by committee.'

	=20

	Rune College has had over 5 years and over 3 sets of committees
work on it and zip.

	I think things end up with no real champion that is willing to
do the very real hard work to move it forward.

	I think this is often because the idea that had has been
effectively watered down by the committee in an attempt to keep all
people happy.

	=20

	I am not suggesting a fix or salutation to a problem here in
this post, but I am asking:

	Do others also think this is a problem?

	=20

	=20

	=20

	Jonathan Bean

	=20

	Business Development Manager

	TME - Its all about time

	Phone 966 1656         PO Box 35902, Browns Bay

	Fax 448 1051           Auckalnd, New Zealand

	Mob 021 173 4060       www.tme.co.nz

	Free 0800 55 33 66

	=20


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<BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3Dpurple link=3Dblue>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D026143100-05092005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>The=20
reason why we have had consultation is because when one person has gone =
away and=20
worked on an idea in isolation, the result often ends up alienating many =
people,=20
so all their hard work is lost. The "committee" or more accurately, =
consultative=20
approach is to prevent someone losing touch with the =
group.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D026143100-05092005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D026143100-05092005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>As far=20
as I can tell, Rune was a victim of other problems. Two or three people =
chose to=20
work together to get creative synergy, and then it never quite got to =
the=20
polished stage.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D026143100-05092005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D026143100-05092005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>I'm=20
not aware of any multi-game content suffering from death by committee. =
If so,=20
this is presumably the campaign commitee's fault - please let us know =
specifics=20
where we have failed.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D026143100-05092005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D026143100-05092005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Andrew</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D026143100-05092005><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
  dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <B>On Behalf Of=20
  </B>Jonathan Bean<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, 5 September 2005 12:06=20
  p.m.<BR><B>To:</B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> [dq]=20
  <BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-NZ=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think they way we do =
things=20
  needs to be looked at.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-NZ=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-NZ=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Perceived=20
  problem:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-NZ=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">DQ rules and multi-game =
content=20
  end up being &#8220;stalled&#8221; at best and often end up as =
&#8216;death by=20
  committee.&#8217;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-NZ=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><st1:place=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND-POSITION: left bottom; BACKGROUND-IMAGE: =
url(res://ietag.dll/#34/#1001); BACKGROUND-REPEAT: repeat-x"=20
  w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on"><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-NZ=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Rune</SPAN></FONT></st1:PlaceName><FONT=20
  face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-NZ=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> <st1:PlaceType=20
  w:st=3D"on">College</st1:PlaceType></SPAN></FONT></st1:place><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"> has had=20
  over 5 years and over 3 sets of committees work on it and=20
  zip.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-NZ=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think things end up =
with no real=20
  champion that is willing to do the very real hard work to move it=20
  forward.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-NZ=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think this is often =
because the=20
  idea that had has been effectively watered down by the committee in an =
attempt=20
  to keep all people happy.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-NZ=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-NZ=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I am not suggesting a =
fix or=20
  salutation to a problem here in this post, but I am=20
  asking:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-NZ=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Do others also think =
this is a=20
  problem?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-NZ=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-NZ=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
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  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-NZ=20
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  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN lang=3DEN-NZ=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jonathan =
Bean</SPAN></FONT><SPAN=20
  lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN =
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C5B1B1.BC947C56--


-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
SubjectRe: [dq] [dq]
FromJonathan Bean
DateMon, 5 Sep 2005 13:32:46 +1200
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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>I'm not aware of any multi-game content suffering from death by committee.
If so, this is presumably the campaign commitee's fault - please let us know
specifics where we have failed.

I don't think the campaign committee has failed at anything. I don't want to
talk about specifics as I do not see it helping. But please let me be clear
I do not think it is the campaign committees failing at all.

 

>The reason why we have had consultation is because when one person has gone
away and worked on an idea in isolation, the result often ends up alienating
many people, so all their hard work is lost. 

>The "committee" or more accurately, consultative approach is to prevent
someone losing touch with the group.

 

I understand why we moved to the current system. I think the fine tuning is
the aspect I think we need to look at.

I think maybe a level of isolation between the people testing something and
the people creating something is helpful in that it would maybe help the
creative people no get discouraged. 

This could be done by introducing a "Champion" and an "Assistant". The feed
back on XYZ goes to the Assistant and they package it up by a due deadline
to then pass onto the Champion to work with.

This may help - I don't know.

 

> As far as I can tell, Rune was a victim of other problems. Two or three
people chose to work together to get creative synergy, and then it never
quite got to the polished stage.

Rune is ready for voting on. The version Surfboard is ok - its not inspired
but its better than the old copy and it could be into play with the next
rule book and the "on hold" lifted.

It has been 5 years and nothing has happened. Why? What is so broken to stop
this simple thing being resolved so people can happily generate a Rune Mage?

 

I don't understand and I would like to understand why this is has happened.
Also please don't get me wrong I don't want to point fingers I do not think
this would be helpful.

 

Jonathan Bean

 

Business Development Manager

TME - Its all about time

Phone 966 1656         PO Box 35902, Browns Bay

Fax 448 1051           Auckalnd, New Zealand

Mob 021 173 4060       www.tme.co.nz

Free 0800 55 33 66

  _____  

From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Andrew Withy (DSL AK)
Sent: 5 September 2005 12:36 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] [dq] 

 

The reason why we have had consultation is because when one person has gone
away and worked on an idea in isolation, the result often ends up alienating
many people, so all their hard work is lost. The "committee" or more
accurately, consultative approach is to prevent someone losing touch with
the group.

 

 

As far as I can tell, Rune was a victim of other problems. Two or three
people chose to work together to get creative synergy, and then it never
quite got to the polished stage.

 

I'm not aware of any multi-game content suffering from death by committee.
If so, this is presumably the campaign commitee's fault - please let us know
specifics where we have failed.

 

Andrew

 

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
Jonathan Bean
Sent: Monday, 5 September 2005 12:06 p.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: [dq] 

I think they way we do things needs to be looked at.

 

Perceived problem:

DQ rules and multi-game content end up being "stalled" at best and often end
up as 'death by committee.'

 

Rune College has had over 5 years and over 3 sets of committees work on it
and zip.

I think things end up with no real champion that is willing to do the very
real hard work to move it forward.

I think this is often because the idea that had has been effectively watered
down by the committee in an attempt to keep all people happy.

 

I am not suggesting a fix or salutation to a problem here in this post, but
I am asking:

Do others also think this is a problem?

 

 

 

Jonathan Bean

 

Business Development Manager

TME - Its all about time

Phone 966 1656         PO Box 35902, Browns Bay

Fax 448 1051           Auckalnd, New Zealand

Mob 021 173 4060       www.tme.co.nz

Free 0800 55 33 66

 


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>&gt;I'm not aware of any multi-game
content suffering from death by committee. If so, this is presumably the
campaign commitee's fault - please let us know specifics where we have =
failed.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>I don&#8217;t think the campaign committee has failed =
at
anything. I don&#8217;t want to talk about specifics as I do not see it
helping. But please let me be clear I do not think it is the campaign
committees failing at all.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>&gt;The reason why we have had
consultation is because when one person has gone away and worked on an =
idea in
isolation, the result often ends up alienating many people, so all their =
hard
work is lost. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>&gt;The &quot;committee&quot; or =
more
accurately, consultative approach is to prevent someone losing touch =
with the
group.</span></font><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I understand why we moved to the =
current
system. I think the fine tuning is the aspect I think we need to look =
at.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think maybe a level of isolation =
between
the people testing something and the people creating something is =
helpful in
that it would maybe help the creative people no get discouraged. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>This could be done by introducing a =
&#8220;Champion&#8221;
and an &#8220;Assistant&#8221;. The feed back on XYZ goes to the =
Assistant and
they package it up by a due deadline to then pass onto the Champion to =
work
with.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>This may help &#8211; I don&#8217;t =
know.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&gt;</span></font><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'> As far
as I can tell, Rune was a victim of other problems. Two or three people =
chose
to work together to get creative synergy, and then it never quite got to =
the
polished stage.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Rune is ready for voting on. The =
version
Surfboard is ok &#8211; its not inspired but its better than the old =
copy and
it could be into play with the next rule book and the &#8220;on =
hold&#8221;
lifted.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>It has been 5 years and nothing has =
happened.
Why? What is so broken to stop this simple thing being resolved so =
people can
happily generate a Rune Mage?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I don&#8217;t understand and I =
would like
to understand why this is has happened. Also please don&#8217;t get me =
wrong I don&#8217;t
want to point fingers I do not think this would be =
helpful.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jonathan Bean</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Business Development =
Manager</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>TME - Its all about =
time</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>Phone =
<st1:Street
w:st=3D"on"><st1:address w:st=3D"on">966
  1656&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; PO Box =
35902</st1:address></st1:Street>,
<st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on">Browns</st1:PlaceName> =
<st1:PlaceType
 w:st=3D"on">Bay</st1:PlaceType></st1:place></span></font><font =
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style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>Fax 448
1051&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<st1:place
w:st=3D"on"><st1:City w:st=3D"on">Auckalnd</st1:City>, =
<st1:country-region w:st=3D"on">New
  Zealand</st1:country-region></st1:place></span></font><font =
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>Mob 021 =
173
4060&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;www.tme.co.nz</span></font>=
<font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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New"><span
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66</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

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<div style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm =
0cm 4.0pt'>

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<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
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<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Andrew Withy (<st1:place =
w:st=3D"on"><st1:City
 w:st=3D"on">DSL</st1:City> <st1:State =
w:st=3D"on">AK</st1:State></st1:place>)<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> 5 September 2005 =
12:36 p.m.<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [dq] [dq] =
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>The reason why we have had =
consultation is
because when one person has gone away and worked on an idea in =
isolation, the
result often ends up alienating many people, so all their hard work is =
lost.
The &quot;committee&quot; or more accurately, consultative approach is =
to
prevent someone losing touch with the group.</span></font><font size=3D2
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>As far as I can tell, Rune was a =
victim of
other problems. Two or three people chose to work together to get =
creative
synergy, and then it never quite got to the polished =
stage.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I'm not aware of any multi-game =
content
suffering from death by committee. If so, this is presumably the =
campaign
commitee's fault - please let us know specifics where we have =
failed.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Andrew</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> =
dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz
[mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On =
Behalf Of </span></b>Jonathan
Bean<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, 5 September =
2005
12:06 p.m.<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName =
w:st=3D"on">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [dq] =
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I think they way we do things needs to be =
looked at.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Perceived =
problem:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>DQ rules and multi-game content end up being
&#8220;stalled&#8221; at best and often end up as &#8216;death by
committee.&#8217;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName =
w:st=3D"on"><font size=3D2
  face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Rune</span></font></st1:Plac=
eName><font
 size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>
 <st1:PlaceType =
w:st=3D"on">College</st1:PlaceType></span></font></st1:place><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>
has had over 5 years and over 3 sets of committees work on it and =
zip.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I think things end up with no real champion =
that is
willing to do the very real hard work to move it =
forward.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I think this is often because the idea that =
had has
been effectively watered down by the committee in an attempt to keep all =
people
happy.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I am not suggesting a fix or salutation to a =
problem
here in this post, but I am asking:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Do others also think this is a =
problem?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Jonathan Bean</span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Business Development =
Manager</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>TME - Its all about time</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Phone <st1:Street
style=3D"BACKGROUND-POSITION: left bottom; BACKGROUND-IMAGE: =
url(res://ietag.dll/#34/#1001); BACKGROUND-REPEAT: repeat-x"
w:st=3D"on"><st1:address
 style=3D"BACKGROUND-POSITION: left bottom; BACKGROUND-IMAGE: =
url(res://ietag.dll/#34/#1001); BACKGROUND-REPEAT: repeat-x"
 w:st=3D"on">966 1656&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; PO =
Box
  35902</st1:address></st1:Street>, <st1:place =
w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on">Browns</st1:PlaceName>
 <st1:PlaceType =
w:st=3D"on">Bay</st1:PlaceType></st1:place></span></font><span
lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Fax 448
1051&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<st1:place
w:st=3D"on"><st1:City
 style=3D"BACKGROUND-POSITION: left bottom; BACKGROUND-IMAGE: =
url(res://ietag.dll/#34/#1001); BACKGROUND-REPEAT: repeat-x"
 w:st=3D"on">Auckalnd</st1:City>, <st1:country-region
 style=3D"BACKGROUND-POSITION: left bottom; BACKGROUND-IMAGE: =
url(res://ietag.dll/#34/#1001); BACKGROUND-REPEAT: repeat-x"
 w:st=3D"on">New =
Zealand</st1:country-region></st1:place></span></font><span
lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Mob 021 173
4060&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;www.tme.co.nz</span></font>=
<span
lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3D"Courier New"><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Free 0800 55 33 =
66</span></font><span
lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</blockquote>

</div>

</div>

</body>

</html>

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-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
Subject[dq] Thief
FromJonathan Bean
DateMon, 5 Sep 2005 14:09:45 +1200
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I think we should move the Thief into voting as is - from the play test.

 

To that end can we move the final text up to the DQ Wiki to people are clear
about what will be voted on - on the 11th please?

I think even the play test version (without refinements) is better than what
we currently have. I also think it will give another year and then it can be
fixed so it is better, but I still think its better than what we currently
have.

 

I on the 11th of Sept will vote yes.

 

Jonathan Bean

 

Business Development Manager

TME - Its all about time

Phone 966 1656         PO Box 35902, Browns Bay

Fax 448 1051           Auckalnd, New Zealand

Mob 021 173 4060       www.tme.co.nz

Free 0800 55 33 66

 

 


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<body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple>

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think we should move the Thief =
into
voting as is - from the play test.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>To that end can we move the final =
text up
to the DQ Wiki to people are clear about what will be voted on &#8211; =
on the
11<sup>th</sup> please?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I think even the play test version =
(without
refinements) is better than what we currently have. I also think it will =
give
another year and then it can be fixed so it is better, but I still think =
its
better than what we currently have.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I on the 11<sup>th</sup> of Sept =
will vote
yes.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Jonathan Bean</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Business Development =
Manager</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>TME - Its all about =
time</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>Phone =
<st1:Street
w:st=3D"on"><st1:address w:st=3D"on">966
  1656&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; PO Box =
35902</st1:address></st1:Street>,
<st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName w:st=3D"on">Browns</st1:PlaceName> =
<st1:PlaceType
 w:st=3D"on">Bay</st1:PlaceType></st1:place></span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>Fax 448
1051&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<st1:place
w:st=3D"on"><st1:City w:st=3D"on">Auckalnd</st1:City>, =
<st1:country-region w:st=3D"on">New
  Zealand</st1:country-region></st1:place></span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>Mob 021 =
173
4060&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;www.tme.co.nz</span></font>=
<font
color=3Dnavy><span style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>Free =
0800 55 33
66<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

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-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
SubjectRe: [dq] [dq]
FromHelen Saggers
DateMon, 5 Sep 2005 14:48:11 +1200
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If we take a closer look at why things take so long and sometimes end up
stalled or suffering death by committee, we will probably find it is due to
three main things. 

 

Firstly as a whole group we only get together and vote once every three
months, this means that simple things like the clarification of shadow form
can from Proposal to Vote take several Months. More complicated things
requiring committees, review, and play test, can have their progress delayed
by this schedule. Something ready for play test may have to wait months for
a new session, those things in play test are often there for several seasons
in several versions. 

 

Secondly we all do this as a hobby, we all have Jobs, Families, and other
commitments, add to this turns GMing, playing time etc. and while some how
most of the time we find a way to juggle it all, it is not unknown for
things to get to much from time to time. 

 

Now when you combine these two together you end up with a Committee  which
has worked for two or three sessions on something, finding one or more
members no longer have the time to continue and so it gets put on hold
until... And so we get to the third reason, everyone knows that it's being
worked on but not that the committees down to one or none or whatever, where
it stays lost as someone else's problem until several years later when
someone thinks to ask what ever happen about... 

Or as in the case of thief that those working on it are waiting on feed back
from play test.

 

The third reason is we as a whole organization are a little disorganized, we
are getting better I've noted, but in the past things in committee have
stayed there unless the committee pushed it forward. And if the committee
lost momentum, no one not on said committee knew unless they remembered to
ask.

 

While we can do little about reasons 1 and 2 we can about reason 3 we need
to find some method of checking say part way though a session as well as two
weeks before the meeting on the status of some of these works in progress.

Not so much so that we can crack the whip, but so that it is clear that some
thing has stalled either from lack of time or feedback or what ever the
problem may be, and then if things die in Committee its because they should
not because they have been accidentally left in limbo.

 

Helen

 

  _____  

From: Andrew Withy (DSL AK)
Sent: Monday, 5 September 2005 12:36 p.m.



The reason why we have had consultation is because when one person has gone
away and worked on an idea in isolation, the result often ends up alienating
many people, so all their hard work is lost. The "committee" or more
accurately, consultative approach is to prevent someone losing touch with
the group.

 

As far as I can tell, Rune was a victim of other problems. Two or three
people chose to work together to get creative synergy, and then it never
quite got to the polished stage.

 

I'm not aware of any multi-game content suffering from death by committee.
If so, this is presumably the campaign commitee's fault - please let us know
specifics where we have failed.

 

Andrew

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Bean
Sent: Monday, 5 September 2005 12:06 p.m.



I think they way we do things needs to be looked at.

 

Perceived problem:

DQ rules and multi-game content end up being "stalled" at best and often end
up as 'death by committee.'

 

Rune College has had over 5 years and over 3 sets of committees work on it
and zip.

I think things end up with no real champion that is willing to do the very
real hard work to move it forward.

I think this is often because the idea that had has been effectively watered
down by the committee in an attempt to keep all people happy.

 

I am not suggesting a fix or salutation to a problem here in this post, but
I am asking:

Do others also think this is a problem?

 

 

 

Jonathan Bean

 

 


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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>If we take a closer look at why =
things
take so long and sometimes end up stalled or suffering death by =
committee, we
will probably find it is due to three main things. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Firstly as a whole group we only =
get together
and vote once every three months, this means that simple things like the
clarification of shadow form can from Proposal to Vote take several =
Months.
More complicated things requiring committees, review, and play test, can =
have
their progress delayed by this schedule. Something ready for play test =
may have
to wait months for a new session, those things in play test are often =
there for
several seasons in several versions. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Secondly we all do this as a hobby, =
we all
have Jobs, Families, and other commitments, add to this turns GMing, =
playing
time etc. and while some how most of the time we find a way to juggle it =
all,
it is not unknown for things to get to much from time to time. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Now when you combine these two =
together you
end up with a Committee &nbsp;which has worked for two or three sessions =
on something,
finding one or more members no longer have the time to continue and so =
it gets
put on hold until&#8230;.. And so we get to the third reason, everyone =
knows
that it&#8217;s being worked on but not that the committees down to one =
or none
or whatever, where it stays lost as someone else&#8217;s problem until =
several
years later when someone thinks to ask what ever happen about&#8230;.. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Or as in the case of thief that =
those
working on it are waiting on feed back from play =
test.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The third reason is we as a whole
organization are a little disorganized, we are getting better I&#8217;ve =
noted,
but in the past things in committee have stayed there unless the =
committee
pushed it forward. And if the committee lost momentum, no one not on =
said
committee knew unless they remembered to =
ask.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>While we can do little about =
reasons 1 and
2 we can about reason 3 we need to find some method of checking say part =
way
though a session as well as two weeks before the meeting on the status =
of some
of these works in progress.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Not so much so that we can crack =
the whip,
but so that it is clear that some thing has stalled either from lack of =
time or
feedback or what ever the problem may be, and then if things die in =
Committee
its because they should not because they have been accidentally left in =
limbo.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Helen<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<div>

<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter style=3D'text-align:center'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>

<hr size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter tabindex=3D-1>

</span></font></div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font =
size=3D2
face=3DTahoma><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> =
Andrew Withy
(DSL AK)<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, 5 September =
2005
12:36 p.m.<br>
<br>
</span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>The reason why we have had =
consultation is
because when one person has gone away and worked on an idea in =
isolation, the
result often ends up alienating many people, so all their hard work is =
lost.
The &quot;committee&quot; or more accurately, consultative approach is =
to
prevent someone losing touch with the =
group.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>As far as I can tell, Rune was a =
victim of
other problems. Two or three people chose to work together to get =
creative
synergy, and then it never quite got to the polished =
stage.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>I'm not aware of any multi-game =
content
suffering from death by committee. If so, this is presumably the =
campaign
commitee's fault - please let us know specifics where we have =
failed.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Andrew</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

<blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Jonathan Bean<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, 5 September =
2005
12:06 p.m.<br>
<br>
</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
lang=3DEN-NZ style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I think they =
way we do
things needs to be looked at.</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Perceived =
problem:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>DQ rules and multi-game content end up being
&#8220;stalled&#8221; at best and often end up as &#8216;death by
committee.&#8217;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><st1:place w:st=3D"on"><st1:PlaceName =
w:st=3D"on"><font size=3D2
  face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Rune</span></font></st1:Plac=
eName><font
 size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>
 <st1:PlaceType =
w:st=3D"on">College</st1:PlaceType></span></font></st1:place><font
size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>
has had over 5 years and over 3 sets of committees work on it and =
zip.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I think things end up with no real champion =
that is
willing to do the very real hard work to move it =
forward.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I think this is often because the idea that =
had has
been effectively watered down by the committee in an attempt to keep all =
people
happy.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>I am not suggesting a fix or salutation to a =
problem
here in this post, but I am asking:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Do others also think this is a =
problem?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DArial><span lang=3DEN-NZ =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Jonathan Bean</span></font><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
lang=3DEN-NZ
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>

</blockquote>

</div>

</body>

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-- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
SubjectRe: [dq] Stalled?
FromErrol Cavit
DateMon, 5 Sep 2005 15:20:40 +1200 
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C5B1C8.CAEDE110
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Bean [mailto:jonathan@tme.co.nz]
Sent: Monday, 5 September 2005 13:33
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] [dq] 



 

>I'm not aware of any multi-game content suffering from death by committee.
If so, this is presumably the campaign commitee's fault - please let us know
specifics where we have failed.

I don't think the campaign committee has failed at anything. I don't want to
talk about specifics as I do not see it helping. But please let me be clear
I do not think it is the campaign committees failing at all.

 

You're unhappy that 'multi-game content is stalled'. Without examples, it is
hard to have a discussion about this. What type of thing do you think hasn't
happened that you think should have? If it's not the rules (covered
elsewhere), or the campaign committee's work, what is it? World development?

 

 

>The reason why we have had consultation is because when one person has gone
away and worked on an idea in isolation, the result often ends up alienating
many people, so all their hard work is lost. 

>The "committee" or more accurately, consultative approach is to prevent
someone losing touch with the group.

 

I understand why we moved to the current system. I think the fine tuning is
the aspect I think we need to look at.

I think maybe a level of isolation between the people testing something and
the people creating something is helpful in that it would maybe help the
creative people no get discouraged. 

This could be done by introducing a "Champion" and an "Assistant". The feed
back on XYZ goes to the Assistant and they package it up by a due deadline
to then pass onto the Champion to work with.

This may help - I don't know. 

 

 

 

I think we have an issue with rules projects not being finished off and
submitted for voting.

However my gut feel is that this has more to do with people's general level
of enthusiasm (both those putting together proposals and those giving them
feedback) as much as anything else. I know this is my primary determinant in
doing DQ-related activity, which is in turn driven by what other things I'd
like to be doing with my time.

The best use for an assistant is probably 'primary nagger'. Do we want to go
this route?

 

 

 

> As far as I can tell, Rune was a victim of other problems. Two or three
people chose to work together to get creative synergy, and then it never
quite got to the polished stage.

Rune is ready for voting on. The version Surfboard is ok - its not inspired
but its better than the old copy and it could be into play with the next
rule book and the "on hold" lifted.

It has been 5 years and nothing has happened. Why? What is so broken to stop
this simple thing being resolved so people can happily generate a Rune Mage?

 

I don't understand and I would like to understand why this is has happened.
Also please don't get me wrong I don't want to point fingers I do not think
this would be helpful.

 

Jonathan Bean

 

I can't remember seeing a substantive post discussing the actual content of
rune, or a proposed meeting to workshop it. This suggests that those working
on it didn't end up with a version they were confident to discuss with
others, for whatever reason. 

 

Cheers

Errol


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<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=906483601-05092005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Jonathan Bean 
  [mailto:jonathan@tme.co.nz]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, 5 September 2005 
  13:33<BR><B>To:</B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] [dq] 
  <BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV class=Section1>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&gt;I'm not aware of 
  any multi-game content suffering from death by committee. If so, this is 
  presumably the campaign commitee's fault - please let us know specifics where 
  we have failed.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I don't think the campaign 
  committee has failed at anything. I don't want to talk about specifics as I do 
  not see it helping. But please let me be clear I do not think it is the 
  campaign committees failing at all.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P class=MsoNormal dir=ltr><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p><SPAN 
class=906483601-05092005>You're unhappy that 'multi-game content is stalled'. 
Without examples, it is hard to have a discussion about this. What type of thing 
do you think hasn't happened that you think should have? If it's not the rules 
(covered elsewhere), or the campaign committee's work, what is it? World 
development?</SPAN></o:p></SPAN></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&gt;The reason why we 
  have had consultation is because when one person has gone away and worked on 
  an idea in isolation, the result often ends up alienating many people, so all 
  their hard work is lost. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&gt;The "committee" 
  or more accurately, consultative approach is to prevent someone losing touch 
  with the group.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I understand why we 
  moved to the current system. I think the fine tuning is the aspect I think we 
  need to look at.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I think maybe a level 
  of isolation between the people testing something and the people creating 
  something is helpful in that it would maybe help the creative people no get 
  discouraged. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This could be done by 
  introducing a "Champion" and an "Assistant". The feed back on XYZ goes to the 
  Assistant and they package it up by a due deadline to then pass onto the 
  Champion to work with.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This may help - I 
  don't know.<FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN 
  class=906483601-05092005>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT 
  color=#0000ff><SPAN 
  class=906483601-05092005></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT 
  color=#0000ff><SPAN 
  class=906483601-05092005></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P class=MsoNormal dir=ltr><FONT color=navy><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT 
color=#0000ff><SPAN 
class=906483601-05092005></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=MsoNormal dir=ltr><FONT color=navy><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT 
color=#0000ff><SPAN class=906483601-05092005>I think we have an issue with rules 
projects not being finished off and submitted for 
voting.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal dir=ltr><FONT color=navy><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT 
color=#0000ff><SPAN class=906483601-05092005>However my gut feel is that this 
has more to do with people's general level of enthusiasm (both those putting 
together proposals and those giving them feedback) as much as anything else. I 
know this is my primary determinant in doing DQ-related activity, which is in 
turn driven by what other things I'd like to be doing with my 
time.</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal dir=ltr><FONT color=navy><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT 
color=#0000ff><SPAN class=906483601-05092005>The best use for an assistant is 
probably 'primary nagger'. Do we want to go this 
route?</SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal dir=ltr><FONT color=navy><SPAN 
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT 
color=#0000ff><SPAN 
class=906483601-05092005></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT 
  color=#0000ff><SPAN 
  class=906483601-05092005>&nbsp;</SPAN><o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">&gt;</SPAN></FONT><FONT 
  face=Arial color=blue size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"> As far as I can 
  tell, Rune was a victim of other problems. Two or three people chose to work 
  together to get creative synergy, and then it never quite got to the polished 
  stage.</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Rune is ready for 
  voting on. The version Surfboard is ok - its not inspired but its better than 
  the old copy and it could be into play with the next rule book and the "on 
  hold" lifted.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">It has been 5 years 
  and nothing has happened. Why? What is so broken to stop this simple thing 
  being resolved so people can happily generate a Rune 
  Mage?<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I don't understand 
  and I would like to understand why this is has happened. Also please don't get 
  me wrong I don't want to point fingers I do not think this would be 
  helpful.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <DIV class=Section1>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jonathan 
  Bean</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=navy><SPAN 
  style="COLOR: navy"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=MsoNormal><FONT color=navy><SPAN 
  style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy"></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P class=MsoNormal dir=ltr><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy"><o:p><SPAN 
class=906483601-05092005>I can't remember seeing a substantive post discussing 
the actual content of rune, or a proposed meeting to workshop it. This suggests 
that those working on it didn't end up with a version they were confident to 
discuss with others, for whatever reason. </SPAN></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal dir=ltr><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy"><o:p><SPAN 
class=906483601-05092005></SPAN></o:p></SPAN>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=MsoNormal dir=ltr><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy"><o:p><SPAN 
class=906483601-05092005>Cheers</SPAN></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal dir=ltr><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy"><o:p><SPAN 
class=906483601-05092005>Errol</SPAN></o:p></SPAN></P></BODY></HTML>

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Subject[dq-pub] Any spare armour?
FromErrol Cavit
DateMon, 5 Sep 2005 15:46:03 +1200 
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this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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[this assumes Darien returns from off-plane in the second week of the
season, but this looks very likely.]
 
You know, it is possible to have too much life! The ugly-sheep leather parts
of my armour got too much life, and wriggled off by themselves.
A shame, and I'll need to find a top-notch Armourer to essentially re-create
an off-plane armour design from the remaining silver-bronze alloy
superstructure.
 
If anyone has human-sized non-cold-iron armour available that is better than
what can be organised with a bit of leg(wing)-work in the Baronies [1], I'm
in the market for it (before it heads into the vaults, and I head for the
DC). I've got various items available for swap.
 
[1] those parts currently able to be flown to, anyway.
 
Cheers
Darien
 
[reply to Errol at above email, or 834-5149 H, 021-049-9351 M]

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<TITLE>Assistance Required</TITLE>

<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1505" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=726212220-31082005></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2><SPAN class=726212220-31082005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=726212220-31082005>[this 
assumes Darien returns from off-plane in the second week of the season, but this 
looks very likely.]</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=726212220-31082005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=726212220-31082005>You 
know, it is possible to have too much life! The ugly-sheep leather parts of my 
armour got too much life, and wriggled off by themselves.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=726212220-31082005>A 
shame, and I'll need to find a top-notch Armourer to essentially re-create an 
off-plane armour design from the remaining silver-bronze alloy 
superstructure.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=726212220-31082005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=726212220-31082005>If 
anyone has human-sized non-cold-iron armour available that is better than what 
can be organised with a bit of leg(wing)-work in the Baronies [1], I'm in the 
market for it (before it heads into the vaults, and I head for the DC). I've got 
various items available for swap.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=726212220-31082005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=726212220-31082005>[1] 
those parts currently able to be flown to, anyway.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=726212220-31082005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=726212220-31082005>Cheers</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=726212220-31082005>Darien</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN 
class=726212220-31082005></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><SPAN class=726212220-31082005>[reply 
to Errol at above email, or 834-5149 H, 021-049-9351 
M]</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Subject[dq] Sanctuary Boxed Set, Other Resources
FromAndrew\ Withy\ \(DSL\ AK\)
DateMon, 5 Sep 2005 16:01:42 +1200
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Hi,
I will be running a game in Sanctuary in the near future. The Wiki said
that there were copies of a boxed set of Sanctuary floating around.
Could I please borrow one for a short period in preparation for my
scenario?
=20
Thanks in advance.
=20
Andrew

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<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Message</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1515" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D311555903-05092005><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D311555903-05092005><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I will =
be running a=20
game in Sanctuary in the near future. The Wiki said that there were =
copies of a=20
boxed set of Sanctuary floating around. Could I please borrow one for a =
short=20
period in preparation for my scenario?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D311555903-05092005><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D311555903-05092005></SPAN><SPAN=20
class=3D311555903-05092005></SPAN><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
size=3D2>T<SPAN=20
class=3D311555903-05092005>hanks in advance.</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial><FONT size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D311555903-05092005></SPAN></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D311555903-05092005><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>Andrew</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>
=00
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