SubjectRe: [dq] {Rulebook} The Weather Table again and Control Weather
Frommhyoung
DateWed, 15 Feb 2006 01:44:16 +1300
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{Rulebook} The Weather Table again and Control WeatherWell given the =
greatest rainfall is 73.62 inches in 24 hours I think the inches per =
hour could use a look at. This is 7,435 tons per acre. Must make some =
sort of dent on a mole hill.......

Divide them all by 2 and make it inches per 24 hours or something. If =
you round up to make it a multiple of 12, you end up with 8 inches per =
hour at Scale 12, 4 per hour at 11, 2 per hour at 10, 1 per hour at 9, =
1/2 an inch per hour at 8, 1/4 at 7, 1/8 at 6, 1/16 at 5 and <=3D 4, its =
not raining.

I have an idea there is another weather table about somewhere. Ask Jono.

I would remove the sentence "This ritual cannot backfire." Theres not =
enough backfires in the game.





  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Errol Cavit=20
  To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 5:41 PM
  Subject: [dq] {Rulebook} The Weather Table again and Control Weather


  This directly affects the results of the Air College ritual R-3 =
Control Weather.=20

  The Weather Table since at least the 2001 rulebook has shown limits =
for the impact of Control Weather (unformatted table 1.0 below, page 67 =
of 2004 rulebook) at various ranks.

  There are three problems with what is there:=20

  1. "* Maximum variation Rank 5 in Control Weather Ritual" etc is a =
lousy description of the limits trying to be imposed (as I understand =
them). What it is trying to say (I think) is that at that the line is =
the most extreme that can be reached with the rank (note that you can =
move the weather to lower-numbered lines, which is quite nasty in the =
case of temperature).=20

  2. It's illogical that there are two lines with each of ** and *** in =
the wind section. It's surprising that there is no line with * in =
temperature.

  3. There is no justification in the ritual write-up for these =
rank-based limits. All it says is=20

  "This ritual will not cause weather effects outside the=20
  normal climatic range of the area (as determined by=20
  the GM)."=20



  Given this, I'm thinking that the *s are relevant for earlier versions =
of the ritual, and should be removed as confusing and redundant. Note =
that the limit of 'normal climatic range' applies, and should be =
included in the note for "R-3 Control Weather (Air Mage Ritual)" at the =
bottom of the table.

  All comments welcome.=20

  Cheers=20
  Errol=20



  Control Weather (R-3)=20
  Duration: 8 hours + 8 hours / Rank=20
  Experience Multiple: 300=20
  Base Chance: 2 =D7 MA + 3% / Rank=20
  Resist: None=20
  Storage: None=20
  Target: Area=20
  Cast Time: 1 hour=20
  Actions: Dance (2 FT when unencumbered)=20
  Concentration Check: None=20
  Effects: The Adept may change one or more of=20
  the three components which make up the weather by=20
  performing a ritual dance. The three components of=20
  weather are;=20
  * Precipitation, Density=20
  * Temperature, Gauge=20
  * Wind, Force=20
  The GM should consult the weather table and advise=20
  the Adept of the current level of each of these three=20
  components before they start dancing. The Adept=20
  may change the current components by a total of 1=20
  +1 per 2 full ranks.=20
  Example At rank 12, the Adept can change a Force 3=20
  wind into a Force 10 wind or Force 3 into Force 7 and Density=20
  5 into Density 2 cloud cover.=20
  All the changes may be in any direction on the table.=20
  This ritual will not cause weather effects outside the=20
  normal climatic range of the area (as determined by=20
  the GM). The weather will change gradually over=20
  (30 - 1 / Rank) minutes per level shifted on the table=20
  and the three components will change simultaneously.=20
  The area of effect is circular with a radius of 1=20
  mile / Rank (minimum 1). Casting this ritual counts=20
  as strenuous activity and the Adept will lose fatigue.=20
  This ritual cannot backfire.=20





  18.9 Weather Scale Table 1.0=20
  Force Wind Specification Speed (mph)=20
  0 Calm Smoke rises vertically < 1=20
  1 Light air Direction indicated by smoke only 1-3=20
  2 Light breeze Wind felt on face, leaves rustle 4-7=20
  3 Gentle breeze Leaves and twigs in constant motion, wind extends =
light flag 8-12=20
  4 Moderate breeze Wind raises dust and loose paper, small branches =
move 13-18=20
  5 Fresh breeze Small trees in leaf start to sway, crested wavelets on =
inland waters 19-24=20
  6 Strong breeze Large branches in motion, whistling through trees =
25-31=20
  7 Near gale Whole trees in motion, inconvenient to walk against wind =
32-38=20
  8 * Gale Twigs break from trees, difficult to walk 39-46=20
  9 ** Strong gale Slight structural damage occurs 47-54=20
  10 ** Storm Trees uprooted, considerable structural damage occur 55-63 =

  11 *** Violent storm Widespread damage 64-73=20
  12+*** Hurricane Widespread damage 74 and above=20



  Gauge Temperature Specification Degrees Celcius=20
  0 *** Arctic Dangerous -20 and below=20
  1 ** Arctic Salt water freezes -15=20
  2 * Arctic Branches become brittle -10=20
  3 Arctic-like Dangerously cold if not dressed in winter clothing -5=20
  4 Sub-arctic Water freezes, numbness, precipitation becomes hail, =
snow, sleet 0=20
  5 Sub-arctic Cold, uncomfortable if poorly clothed 5=20
  6 Sub-tropical Cool 10=20
  7 Sub-tropical Comfortable 15=20
  8 Sub-tropical Comfortable, warm 20=20
  9 Tropical Hot, uncomfortable if poorly clothed 25=20
  10 Tropical Uncomfortably hot, sub-tropical plants wither 30=20
  11 ** Desert-like Extreme heat, sub-tropical plants die, tropical =
plants wither 35=20
  12+*** Desert Debilitating, tropical plants die 40 and above=20



  Degree Cloud Precipitation Inches / Hour=20
  0 Clear Dry, high fire danger 0=20
  1 Clear Dry, fires easy to start 0=20
  2 Clear Comfortable 0=20
  3 Sparse Humid, uncomfortable in high temperature 1=20
  4 Light Damp 2=20
  5 Cloudy Drizzle, fog in cold conditions 3=20
  6 Overcast Showers 4=20
  7 Heavy Cloud Light rain, leaves move, fires difficult to start 5=20
  8 Dark Cloud Average rain 10=20
  9 Low black cloud Heavy rain, small branches move, small fires doused =
20=20
  10 * Oppressive Torrential rain, river rise, large fires doused 40=20
  11 ** Oppressive Flood warning, rivers burst their banks 80=20
  12+*** Oppressive Flash floods 160=20



  * Maximum variation Rank 5 in Control Weather Ritual=20
  ** Maximum variation Rank 10 in Control Weather Ritual=20
  *** Maximum variation Rank 15 in Control Weather Ritual=20

  T1 Aerial Affinity (Air Mage Talent) Due to their close association =
with the=20
  environment the Adept can modify the Force downwards, and Gauge =
upwards=20
  on the Weather Scale Table by 1 per 4 rank, for themselves.=20
  S-12 Resist Cold (Air Mage Spell) This spell protects the target from =
the effects=20
  of cold temperature by increasing the Gauge by 1 (+ 1 / 4 full ranks) =
up to a=20
  maximum of Gauge 7.=20
  R-3 Control Weather (Air Mage Ritual) The Adept may change the current =

  components by 1 + 1 per 2 full ranks.=20
  Example At rank 12, the Adept can change a Force 3 wind into a Force =
10 wind or Force=20
  3 into Force 7 and Density 5 into Density 2 cloud cover. Each of the =
changes may be in=20
  any direction on the table.=20

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<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>{Rulebook} The Weather Table again and Control =
Weather</TITLE>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well given the greatest rainfall is =
73.62 inches=20
in&nbsp;<STRONG>24 hours </STRONG>I think the inches per hour could use =
a look=20
at. This is 7,435 tons per acre. Must make some sort of dent on a mole=20
hill.......</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Divide them all by 2 and make it inches =
per 24=20
hours or something. If you round up to make it a multiple of 12, you end =
up with=20
8 inches per hour at Scale 12, 4 per hour at 11, 2 per hour at 10, 1 per =
hour at=20
9, 1/2 an inch per hour at 8, 1/4 at 7, 1/8 at 6, 1/16 at 5 and &lt;=3D =
4, its not=20
raining.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have an idea there is another weather =
table about=20
somewhere. Ask Jono.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I would remove the sentence "This =
ritual cannot=20
backfire." Theres not enough backfires in the game.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3Decavit@tollnz.co.nz =
href=3D"mailto:ecavit@tollnz.co.nz">Errol Cavit</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=3Ddq@dq.sf.org.nz=20
  href=3D"mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 14, =
2006 5:41=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [dq] {Rulebook} The =
Weather=20
  Table again and Control Weather</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>This directly affects the results of the Air College =
ritual=20
  R-3 Control Weather.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>The Weather Table since at least the 2001 rulebook =
has shown=20
  limits for the impact of Control Weather (unformatted table 1.0 below, =
page 67=20
  of 2004 rulebook) at various ranks.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>There are three problems with what is there:</FONT> =
</P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>1. "* Maximum variation Rank 5 in Control Weather =
Ritual" etc=20
  is a lousy description of the limits trying to be imposed (as I =
understand=20
  them). What it is trying to say (I think) is that at that the line is =
the most=20
  extreme that can be reached with the rank (note that you can move the =
weather=20
  to lower-numbered lines, which is quite nasty in the case of =
temperature).=20
  </FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>2. It's illogical that there are two lines with each =
of ** and=20
  *** in the wind section. It's surprising that there is no line with * =
in=20
  temperature.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>3. There is no justification in the ritual write-up =
for these=20
  rank-based limits. All it says is </FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>"This ritual will not cause weather effects outside =
the</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2>normal climatic range of the area (as determined =
by</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2>the GM)."</FONT> </P><BR>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>Given this, I'm thinking that the *s are relevant =
for earlier=20
  versions of the ritual, and should be removed as confusing and =
redundant. Note=20
  that the limit of 'normal climatic range' applies, and should be =
included in=20
  the note for "R-3 Control Weather (Air Mage Ritual)" at the bottom of =
the=20
  table.</FONT></P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>All comments welcome.</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>Cheers</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>Errol</FONT> =
</P><BR>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>Control Weather (R-3)</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>Duration: 8=20
  hours + 8 hours / Rank</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>Experience Multiple: =
300</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2>Base Chance: 2 =D7 MA + 3% / Rank</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>Resist: None</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>Storage: None</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>Target: Area</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>Cast Time: 1 =
hour</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>Actions: Dance (2 FT when unencumbered)</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>Concentration Check: None</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>Effects: =
The Adept=20
  may change one or more of</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>the three =
components which=20
  make up the weather by</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>performing a ritual =
dance. The=20
  three components of</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>weather are;</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>* Precipitation, Density</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>* =
Temperature,=20
  Gauge</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>* Wind, Force</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>The GM=20
  should consult the weather table and advise</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>the Adept=20
  of the current level of each of these three</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>components=20
  before they start dancing. The Adept</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>may =
change the=20
  current components by a total of 1</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>+1 per 2 =
full=20
  ranks.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>Example At rank 12, the Adept can =
change a=20
  Force 3</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>wind into a Force 10 wind or Force 3 =
into=20
  Force 7 and Density</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>5 into Density 2 cloud=20
  cover.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>All the changes may be in any =
direction on the=20
  table.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>This ritual will not cause weather =
effects=20
  outside the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>normal climatic range of the =
area (as=20
  determined by</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>the GM). The weather will =
change=20
  gradually over</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>(30 - 1 / Rank) minutes per =
level=20
  shifted on the table</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>and the three =
components will=20
  change simultaneously.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>The area of effect is =
circular=20
  with a radius of 1</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>mile / Rank (minimum 1). =
Casting=20
  this ritual counts</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>as strenuous activity and =
the Adept=20
  will lose fatigue.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>This ritual cannot =
backfire.</FONT>=20
  </P><BR><BR><BR>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>18.9 Weather Scale Table 1.0</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>Force=20
  Wind Specification Speed (mph)</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>0 Calm Smoke =
rises=20
  vertically &lt; 1</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>1 Light air Direction =
indicated by=20
  smoke only 1-3</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>2 Light breeze Wind felt on =
face,=20
  leaves rustle 4-7</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>3 Gentle breeze Leaves and =
twigs in=20
  constant motion, wind extends light flag 8-12</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>4=20
  Moderate breeze Wind raises dust and loose paper, small branches move=20
  13-18</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>5 Fresh breeze Small trees in leaf =
start to=20
  sway, crested wavelets on inland waters 19-24</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>6 Strong=20
  breeze Large branches in motion, whistling through trees 25-31</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2>7 Near gale Whole trees in motion, inconvenient to =
walk=20
  against wind 32-38</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>8 * Gale Twigs break from =
trees,=20
  difficult to walk 39-46</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>9 ** Strong gale =
Slight=20
  structural damage occurs 47-54</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>10 ** Storm =
Trees=20
  uprooted, considerable structural damage occur 55-63</FONT> <BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>11 *** Violent storm Widespread damage 64-73</FONT> <BR><FONT =

  size=3D2>12+*** Hurricane Widespread damage 74 and above</FONT> =
</P><BR>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>Gauge Temperature Specification Degrees =
Celcius</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2>0 *** Arctic Dangerous -20 and below</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>1 ** Arctic Salt water freezes -15</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>2 * Arctic=20
  Branches become brittle -10</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>3 Arctic-like =
Dangerously=20
  cold if not dressed in winter clothing -5</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>4 =
Sub-arctic=20
  Water freezes, numbness, precipitation becomes hail, snow, sleet =
0</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2>5 Sub-arctic Cold, uncomfortable if poorly clothed =
5</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2>6 Sub-tropical Cool 10</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>7 =
Sub-tropical=20
  Comfortable 15</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>8 Sub-tropical Comfortable, =
warm=20
  20</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>9 Tropical Hot, uncomfortable if poorly =
clothed=20
  25</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>10 Tropical Uncomfortably hot, =
sub-tropical plants=20
  wither 30</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>11 ** Desert-like Extreme heat, =
sub-tropical=20
  plants die, tropical plants wither 35</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>12+*** =
Desert=20
  Debilitating, tropical plants die 40 and above</FONT> </P><BR>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>Degree Cloud Precipitation Inches / Hour</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>0 Clear Dry, high fire danger 0</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>1 =
Clear Dry,=20
  fires easy to start 0</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>2 Clear Comfortable =
0</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2>3 Sparse Humid, uncomfortable in high temperature =
1</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2>4 Light Damp 2</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>5 Cloudy =
Drizzle, fog=20
  in cold conditions 3</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>6 Overcast Showers =
4</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2>7 Heavy Cloud Light rain, leaves move, fires =
difficult to=20
  start 5</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>8 Dark Cloud Average rain 10</FONT> =
<BR><FONT=20
  size=3D2>9 Low black cloud Heavy rain, small branches move, small =
fires doused=20
  20</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>10 * Oppressive Torrential rain, river =
rise, large=20
  fires doused 40</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>11 ** Oppressive Flood =
warning, rivers=20
  burst their banks 80</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>12+*** Oppressive Flash =
floods=20
  160</FONT> </P><BR>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>* Maximum variation Rank 5 in Control Weather =
Ritual</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2>** Maximum variation Rank 10 in Control Weather =
Ritual</FONT>=20
  <BR><FONT size=3D2>*** Maximum variation Rank 15 in Control Weather=20
  Ritual</FONT> </P>
  <P><FONT size=3D2>T1 Aerial Affinity (Air Mage Talent) Due to their =
close=20
  association with the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>environment the Adept =
can modify=20
  the Force downwards, and Gauge upwards</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>on =
the Weather=20
  Scale Table by 1 per 4 rank, for themselves.</FONT> <BR><FONT =
size=3D2>S-12=20
  Resist Cold (Air Mage Spell) This spell protects the target from the=20
  effects</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>of cold temperature by increasing =
the Gauge by=20
  1 (+ 1 / 4 full ranks) up to a</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>maximum of =
Gauge=20
  7.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>R-3 Control Weather (Air Mage Ritual) The =
Adept may=20
  change the current</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>components by 1 + 1 per 2 =
full=20
  ranks.</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>Example At rank 12, the Adept can =
change a=20
  Force 3 wind into a Force 10 wind or Force</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>3 =
into=20
  Force 7 and Density 5 into Density 2 cloud cover. Each of the changes =
may be=20
  in</FONT> <BR><FONT size=3D2>any direction on the table.</FONT>=20
</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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SubjectRe: [dq] {Rulebook} The Weather Table again and Control Weather
Fromraro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz
DateWed, 15 Feb 2006 01:42:23 +1300
Quoting mhyoung <mhyoung@ihug.co.nz>:

> {Rulebook} The Weather Table again and Control WeatherWell given the greatest
> rainfall is 73.62 inches in 24 hours I think the inches per hour could use a
> look at. This is 7,435 tons per acre. Must make some sort of dent on a mole
> hill.......
>
> Divide them all by 2 and make it inches per 24 hours or something. If you
> round up to make it a multiple of 12, you end up with 8 inches per hour at
> Scale 12, 4 per hour at 11, 2 per hour at 10, 1 per hour at 9, 1/2 an inch
> per hour at 8, 1/4 at 7, 1/8 at 6, 1/16 at 5 and <= 4, its not raining.
>
> I have an idea there is another weather table about somewhere. Ask Jono.
>
> I would remove the sentence "This ritual cannot backfire." Theres not enough
> backfires in the game.

There are too many backfires in the game. They just stop people from doing
things at low ranks. That just encourages people to not use their abilities
till they're castable.

In addition, a backfired Weather Control is too tempting a variety of chaos for
DMs and players.

Jim


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SubjectRe: [dq] {Rulebook} The Weather Table again and Control Weather
Frommhyoung
DateWed, 15 Feb 2006 02:41:36 +1300
We will have to agree to disagree on this. In addition the Concentration
Check should be Standard, not None. Just ask Lathe.......

Michael

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz>
To: <dq@dq.sf.org.nz>
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:42 AM
Subject: Re: [dq] {Rulebook} The Weather Table again and Control Weather


> Quoting mhyoung <mhyoung@ihug.co.nz>:
>> >
> > I would remove the sentence "This ritual cannot backfire." Theres not
enough
> > backfires in the game.
>
> There are too many backfires in the game. They just stop people from doing
> things at low ranks. That just encourages people to not use their
abilities
> till they're castable.
>
> In addition, a backfired Weather Control is too tempting a variety of
chaos for
> DMs and players.
>
> Jim
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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SubjectRe: [dq] {Rulebook} The Weather Table again and Control Weather
Fromraro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz
DateWed, 15 Feb 2006 02:42:24 +1300
This is one of the few rituals that cost FT to cast. It has a particular
requirement that you have to perform to execute it. There is no need to change
it, just to make the thing the same as every other thing in the damned book.

And, as far as backfires in general are concerned, the only rational behaviour
that this engenders is to learn your magic, work out what rank you need to make
it only backfire on a roll of 100, and you have done NOTHING to make the game
more interesting. The only thing you have done is create a line in the sand
where a rational player will post their character's advancement to.

Jim.

Quoting mhyoung <mhyoung@ihug.co.nz>:

> We will have to agree to disagree on this. In addition the Concentration
> Check should be Standard, not None. Just ask Lathe.......
>
> Michael
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <raro002@ec.auckland.ac.nz>
> To: <dq@dq.sf.org.nz>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [dq] {Rulebook} The Weather Table again and Control Weather
>
>
> > Quoting mhyoung <mhyoung@ihug.co.nz>:
> >> >
> > > I would remove the sentence "This ritual cannot backfire." Theres not
> enough
> > > backfires in the game.
> >
> > There are too many backfires in the game. They just stop people from doing
> > things at low ranks. That just encourages people to not use their
> abilities
> > till they're castable.
> >
> > In addition, a backfired Weather Control is too tempting a variety of
> chaos for
> > DMs and players.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> > -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
> >
>
>
> -- to unsubscribe notify mailto:dq-request@dq.sf.org.nz --
>


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SubjectRe: [dq] {Rulebook} The Weather Table again and Control Weather
FromErrol Cavit
DateWed, 15 Feb 2006 08:40:58 +1300
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The issue of the rainfall amounts have already been addressed, and the far
more sensible amounts from the 1.1 version of the table will be in the new
rulebook. I put the version of the table from the 2004 rulebook in the email
as that is what everyone can see at this stage, and the rainfall amounts are
not relevant to the points I raised. However I should have mentioned the
upcoming change.
 
The rank-based limits in the table have no basis in the ritual's effects
description.
Given the history of changes to the Air College, there is a good chance that
the rank-based limits are a left-over artefact from earlier versions of the
ritual, and shouldn't be there.
 
Cheers
Errol

-----Original Message-----
From: mhyoung [mailto:mhyoung@ihug.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 15 February 2006 01:44
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] {Rulebook} The Weather Table again and Control Weather


Well given the greatest rainfall is 73.62 inches in 24 hours I think the
inches per hour could use a look at. This is 7,435 tons per acre. Must make
some sort of dent on a mole hill.......
 
Divide them all by 2 and make it inches per 24 hours or something. If you
round up to make it a multiple of 12, you end up with 8 inches per hour at
Scale 12, 4 per hour at 11, 2 per hour at 10, 1 per hour at 9, 1/2 an inch
per hour at 8, 1/4 at 7, 1/8 at 6, 1/16 at 5 and <= 4, its not raining.
 
I have an idea there is another weather table about somewhere. Ask Jono.
 
I would remove the sentence "This ritual cannot backfire." Theres not enough
backfires in the game.
 
 
 
 
 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Errol  <mailto:ecavit@tollnz.co.nz> Cavit 
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz <mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz>  
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 5:41 PM
Subject: [dq] {Rulebook} The Weather Table again and Control Weather


This directly affects the results of the Air College ritual R-3 Control
Weather. 

The Weather Table since at least the 2001 rulebook has shown limits for the
impact of Control Weather (unformatted table 1.0 below, page 67 of 2004
rulebook) at various ranks.

There are three problems with what is there: 

1. "* Maximum variation Rank 5 in Control Weather Ritual" etc is a lousy
description of the limits trying to be imposed (as I understand them). What
it is trying to say (I think) is that at that the line is the most extreme
that can be reached with the rank (note that you can move the weather to
lower-numbered lines, which is quite nasty in the case of temperature). 

2. It's illogical that there are two lines with each of ** and *** in the
wind section. It's surprising that there is no line with * in temperature.

3. There is no justification in the ritual write-up for these rank-based
limits. All it says is 

"This ritual will not cause weather effects outside the 
normal climatic range of the area (as determined by 
the GM)." 


Given this, I'm thinking that the *s are relevant for earlier versions of
the ritual, and should be removed as confusing and redundant. Note that the
limit of 'normal climatic range' applies, and should be included in the note
for "R-3 Control Weather (Air Mage Ritual)" at the bottom of the table.

All comments welcome. 

Cheers 
Errol 


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<DIV><SPAN class=328212219-14022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The 
issue of the rainfall amounts have already been addressed, and the far more 
sensible amounts from the 1.1 version of the table will be in the new rulebook. 
I put the version of the table from the 2004 rulebook in the email as that is 
what everyone can see at this stage, and the rainfall amounts are not relevant 
to the points I raised. However I should have mentioned the upcoming 
change.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=328212219-14022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=328212219-14022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>The 
rank-based limits in the table have no basis in the ritual's effects 
description.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=328212219-14022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>Given 
the history of changes to the Air College, there is a good chance that the 
rank-based limits are a left-over artefact from earlier versions of the ritual, 
and shouldn't be there.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=328212219-14022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=328212219-14022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>Cheers</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=328212219-14022006><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff 
size=2>Errol</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" 
  size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> mhyoung 
  [mailto:mhyoung@ihug.co.nz]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 15 February 2006 
  01:44<BR><B>To:</B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] {Rulebook} The 
  Weather Table again and Control Weather<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Well given the greatest rainfall is 73.62 inches 
  in&nbsp;<STRONG>24 hours </STRONG>I think the inches per hour could use a look 
  at. This is 7,435 tons per acre. Must make some sort of dent on a mole 
  hill.......</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Divide them all by 2 and make it inches per 24 
  hours or something. If you round up to make it a multiple of 12, you end up 
  with 8 inches per hour at Scale 12, 4 per hour at 11, 2 per hour at 10, 1 per 
  hour at 9, 1/2 an inch per hour at 8, 1/4 at 7, 1/8 at 6, 1/16 at 5 and &lt;= 
  4, its not raining.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I have an idea there is another weather table 
  about somewhere. Ask Jono.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I would remove the sentence "This ritual cannot 
  backfire." Theres not enough backfires in the game.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr 
  style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV 
    style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> 
    <A title=ecavit@tollnz.co.nz href="mailto:ecavit@tollnz.co.nz">Errol 
    Cavit</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=dq@dq.sf.org.nz 
    href="mailto:dq@dq.sf.org.nz">dq@dq.sf.org.nz</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, February 14, 2006 5:41 
    PM</DIV>
    <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [dq] {Rulebook} The Weather 
    Table again and Control Weather</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <P><FONT size=2>This directly affects the results of the Air College ritual 
    R-3 Control Weather.</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>The Weather Table since at least the 2001 rulebook has shown 
    limits for the impact of Control Weather (unformatted table 1.0 below, page 
    67 of 2004 rulebook) at various ranks.</FONT></P>
    <P><FONT size=2>There are three problems with what is there:</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>1. "* Maximum variation Rank 5 in Control Weather Ritual" 
    etc is a lousy description of the limits trying to be imposed (as I 
    understand them). What it is trying to say (I think) is that at that the 
    line is the most extreme that can be reached with the rank (note that you 
    can move the weather to lower-numbered lines, which is quite nasty in the 
    case of temperature). </FONT></P>
    <P><FONT size=2>2. It's illogical that there are two lines with each of ** 
    and *** in the wind section. It's surprising that there is no line with * in 
    temperature.</FONT></P>
    <P><FONT size=2>3. There is no justification in the ritual write-up for 
    these rank-based limits. All it says is </FONT></P>
    <P><FONT size=2>"This ritual will not cause weather effects outside 
    the</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>normal climatic range of the area (as determined 
    by</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>the GM)."</FONT> </P><BR>
    <P><FONT size=2>Given this, I'm thinking that the *s are relevant for 
    earlier versions of the ritual, and should be removed as confusing and 
    redundant. Note that the limit of 'normal climatic range' applies, and 
    should be included in the note for "R-3 Control Weather (Air Mage Ritual)" 
    at the bottom of the table.</FONT></P>
    <P><FONT size=2>All comments welcome.</FONT> </P>
    <P><FONT size=2>Cheers</FONT> <BR><FONT size=2>Errol</FONT> 
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SubjectRe: [dq] {Rulebook} The Weather Table again and Control Weather
FromAndrew\ Withy\ \(DSL\ AK\)
DateWed, 15 Feb 2006 08:41:19 +1300
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I'm hoping that Michael's comments apply to the current, broken table,
not the version it is being replaced with, which is supposed to reduce
the rainfall amount?
=20
Otherwise, I completely agree with Michael.
=20
Andrew

	-----Original Message-----
	From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On
Behalf Of mhyoung
	Sent: Wednesday, 15 February 2006 1:44 a.m.
	To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
	Subject: Re: [dq] {Rulebook} The Weather Table again and Control
Weather
=09
=09
	Well given the greatest rainfall is 73.62 inches in 24 hours I
think the inches per hour could use a look at. This is 7,435 tons per
acre. Must make some sort of dent on a mole hill.......
	=20
	Divide them all by 2 and make it inches per 24 hours or
something. If you round up to make it a multiple of 12, you end up with
8 inches per hour at Scale 12, 4 per hour at 11, 2 per hour at 10, 1 per
hour at 9, 1/2 an inch per hour at 8, 1/4 at 7, 1/8 at 6, 1/16 at 5 and
<=3D 4, its not raining.
	=20
	I have an idea there is another weather table about somewhere.
Ask Jono.
	=20
	I would remove the sentence "This ritual cannot backfire."
Theres not enough backfires in the game.
	=20
	=20
	=20


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<DIV><SPAN class=3D687084019-14022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>I'm=20
hoping that Michael's comments apply to the current, broken table, not =
the=20
version it is being replaced with, which is supposed to reduce the =
rainfall=20
amount?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D687084019-14022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D687084019-14022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Otherwise, I completely agree with Michael.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D687084019-14022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D687084019-14022006><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>Andrew</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
  dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <B>On Behalf Of=20
  </B>mhyoung<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 15 February 2006 1:44=20
  a.m.<BR><B>To:</B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] =
{Rulebook} The=20
  Weather Table again and Control Weather<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well given the greatest rainfall is =
73.62 inches=20
  in&nbsp;<STRONG>24 hours </STRONG>I think the inches per hour could =
use a look=20
  at. This is 7,435 tons per acre. Must make some sort of dent on a mole =

  hill.......</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Divide them all by 2 and make it =
inches per 24=20
  hours or something. If you round up to make it a multiple of 12, you =
end up=20
  with 8 inches per hour at Scale 12, 4 per hour at 11, 2 per hour at =
10, 1 per=20
  hour at 9, 1/2 an inch per hour at 8, 1/4 at 7, 1/8 at 6, 1/16 at 5 =
and &lt;=3D=20
  4, its not raining.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have an idea there is another =
weather table=20
  about somewhere. Ask Jono.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I would remove the sentence "This =
ritual cannot=20
  backfire." Theres not enough backfires in the game.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
=00
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SubjectRe: [dq] {Rulebook} The Weather Table again and Control Weather
FromErrol Cavit
DateWed, 15 Feb 2006 08:45:07 +1300
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The new values are at
 
http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Pending_Rule_Changes#Weather_
Scale_Table
<http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Pending_Rule_Changes#Weather
_Scale_Table> 

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Withy (DSL AK) [mailto:AndrewW@datacom.co.nz]
Sent: Wednesday, 15 February 2006 08:41
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] {Rulebook} The Weather Table again and Control Weather


I'm hoping that Michael's comments apply to the current, broken table, not
the version it is being replaced with, which is supposed to reduce the
rainfall amount?
 
Otherwise, I completely agree with Michael.
 
Andrew

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf Of
mhyoung
Sent: Wednesday, 15 February 2006 1:44 a.m.
To: dq@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq] {Rulebook} The Weather Table again and Control Weather


Well given the greatest rainfall is 73.62 inches in 24 hours I think the
inches per hour could use a look at. This is 7,435 tons per acre. Must make
some sort of dent on a mole hill.......
 
Divide them all by 2 and make it inches per 24 hours or something. If you
round up to make it a multiple of 12, you end up with 8 inches per hour at
Scale 12, 4 per hour at 11, 2 per hour at 10, 1 per hour at 9, 1/2 an inch
per hour at 8, 1/4 at 7, 1/8 at 6, 1/16 at 5 and <= 4, its not raining.
 
I have an idea there is another weather table about somewhere. Ask Jono.
 
I would remove the sentence "This ritual cannot backfire." Theres not enough
backfires in the game.
 
 
 


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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D828244419-14022006><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>The=20
new values are at</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D828244419-14022006><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D828244419-14022006><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Pending_Rule_Chan=
ges#Weather_Scale_Table">http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/=
Pending_Rule_Changes#Weather_Scale_Table</A></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Andrew Withy (DSL =
AK)=20
  [mailto:AndrewW@datacom.co.nz]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 15 February =
2006=20
  08:41<BR><B>To:</B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] =
{Rulebook} The=20
  Weather Table again and Control Weather<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D687084019-14022006><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>I'm=20
  hoping that Michael's comments apply to the current, broken table, =
not the=20
  version it is being replaced with, which is supposed to reduce the =
rainfall=20
  amount?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D687084019-14022006><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D687084019-14022006><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2>Otherwise, I completely agree with =
Michael.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D687084019-14022006><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D687084019-14022006><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
  size=3D2>Andrew</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV></DIV>
    <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
    face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
    dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] <B>On Behalf =
Of=20
    </B>mhyoung<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, 15 February 2006 1:44=20
    a.m.<BR><B>To:</B> dq@dq.sf.org.nz<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [dq] =
{Rulebook}=20
    The Weather Table again and Control Weather<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well given the greatest rainfall =
is 73.62=20
    inches in&nbsp;<STRONG>24 hours </STRONG>I think the inches per =
hour could=20
    use a look at. This is 7,435 tons per acre. Must make some sort of =
dent on a=20
    mole hill.......</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Divide them all by 2 and make it =
inches per 24=20
    hours or something. If you round up to make it a multiple of 12, =
you end up=20
    with 8 inches per hour at Scale 12, 4 per hour at 11, 2 per hour at =
10, 1=20
    per hour at 9, 1/2 an inch per hour at 8, 1/4 at 7, 1/8 at 6, 1/16 =
at 5 and=20
    &lt;=3D 4, its not raining.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I have an idea there is another =
weather table=20
    about somewhere. Ask Jono.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I would remove the sentence "This =
ritual cannot=20
    backfire." Theres not enough backfires in the game.</FONT></DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
    <DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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