On Mon, 2007-10-15 at 18:14, phaeton@ihug.co.nz wrote:
> Now I'm looking for ways to get master ranks in artisan(farmer) and
> artisan(husbander) and I was thinking that if there are any good keen lads
> and lasses about, we could go on a quest to see if we can find something to
> help prevent future harvest losses due to disease, or fungal infections..

As I recall, a GM once told me that master works were not required for
high ranks in artisan. Is there consensus on this?


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> As I recall, a GM once told me that master works were not 
> required for high ranks in artisan. Is there consensus on this?

I had heard the same thing, but realistically artisan is where a masterwork
is more appropriate not less,  although from a game mechanics perspective,
it should be a little easier to perform than the regular skills. 

Mandos
/s


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On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 09:03, Mandos Mitchinson wrote:
>  > As I recall, a GM once told me that master works were not 
> > required for high ranks in artisan. Is there consensus on this?
> 
> I had heard the same thing, but realistically artisan is where a masterwork
> is more appropriate not less,  although from a game mechanics perspective,
> it should be a little easier to perform than the regular skills. 

True, but it would be easy to hand-wave this away if we wanted to. The 8
weeks of 'training' are the time it takes to create your masterwork. You
can specify what the masterwork is, if you wish, but it has no game
effect unless a GM says so. (Perhaps it needed to be sold to pay for the
material costs.)

As usual, we can just choose what is best game-wise, and invent a
justification afterwards. Perhaps an EP cost break if there is some
suitable 'in game' project or achievement?


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I recon if Basalic wants to go on adventure to get a master work to do with
plants he should.  This dose not require us to work out weather or not he
needs to.

Hamish 



-----Original Message-----
From: dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz] On Behalf
Of Michael Woodhams
Sent: Tuesday, 16 mmmm 2007 1:06
To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: Re: [dq-pub] Quest for plant curing magics etc

On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 09:03, Mandos Mitchinson wrote:
>  > As I recall, a GM once told me that master works were not 
> > required for high ranks in artisan. Is there consensus on this?
> 
> I had heard the same thing, but realistically artisan is where a
masterwork
> is more appropriate not less,  although from a game mechanics perspective,
> it should be a little easier to perform than the regular skills. 

True, but it would be easy to hand-wave this away if we wanted to. The 8
weeks of 'training' are the time it takes to create your masterwork. You
can specify what the masterwork is, if you wish, but it has no game
effect unless a GM says so. (Perhaps it needed to be sold to pay for the
material costs.)

As usual, we can just choose what is best game-wise, and invent a
justification afterwards. Perhaps an EP cost break if there is some
suitable 'in game' project or achievement?


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I've known Keiths been looking to find some way for Basalic to get =
master ranks in artisan farmer and husbander for some time its just hard =
to define whats good enough with artisan skills.

Personally I think Basalics current project may qualify him for Farmer =
but as the player of the owner of the land in question I also think I'm =
too close to have the final yay or nay.
Planing and overseaing the conversion of several square miles of =
wilderness into farmland able to feed 4-500 people in only a couple of =
years is nothing to be sneezed at.

Basalic is currently overseeing the development of about 3 sq miles or =
1920acres of farmland from wilderness (plains,and hills) out at Bolton =
Bay. An area maybe a little larger than the whole of the Te Atau =
Peninsula.

Of course around a quarter of this will be hay meadows, currently =
requiring only that animals be kept off the grass until after the hay is =
in. And a further quarter is fallow land in the rotational system, only =
requiring you keep the animals in.=20
Still that leaves some 960 acres or one and half a square mile as crop =
land.
None of which has been previously Blessed by anyone or worked in anyway, =
and he's having to work out what to grow where for best results.

Fencing, mostly in the form of ditches and sod walls, with the odd =
drystone wall and hedge thrown in has been underway since last summer, =
so that some 360 acres of winter wheat, potatoes could be planted at the =
proper time. And a further 360 acres of oats and other crops this =
spring. Some Orcharding was also planted over the winter.
 =20
I guess with the spring planting underway Basalic's realized that =
getting nearly 1000 acres Blessed in one season is a nightmare and is =
really looking for some seed that's a bit more hardy and hasn't been =
coddled by magic for the last hundred plus years.

Don't worry to much Basalic, I wasn't expecting the place to become =
self-sufficient in the first year.

Thorn

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<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've known Keiths been looking to find =
some way for=20
Basalic to&nbsp;get master ranks in artisan farmer and husbander for =
some time=20
its just hard to define whats good enough with artisan =
skills.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Personally I think Basalics current project may qualify him for =
Farmer but=20
as the player of the owner of the land in question I also think I'm too =
close to=20
have the final yay or nay.</DIV>
<DIV>Planing and overseaing the conversion of&nbsp;several square miles =
of=20
wilderness into farmland able to feed 4-500 people in only a couple of =
years is=20
nothing to be sneezed at.</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;</DIV></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Basalic is currently overseeing the =
development of=20
about&nbsp;3 sq miles&nbsp;or 1920acres of farmland from wilderness =
(plains,and=20
hills) out at Bolton Bay. A</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>n=20
area&nbsp;maybe&nbsp;a little larger than&nbsp;the whole of the Te Atau=20
Peninsula.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Of course around&nbsp;a quarter of this =
will be hay=20
meadows, currently requiring only that animals be kept off the grass =
until after=20
the hay is in. And a further quarter&nbsp;is fallow land in the =
rotational=20
system, only requiring you keep the animals in. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Still that leaves some&nbsp;960 acres =
or one and=20
half a square mile as crop land.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>None of which has been previously =
Blessed by anyone=20
or worked in anyway, and he's having to work out what to grow where for =
best=20
results.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Fencing, mostly in the form of ditches =
and&nbsp;sod=20
walls, with the odd drystone wall and hedge thrown in has been underway =
since=20
last summer, so that some 360 acres of winter wheat, potatoes could be =
planted=20
at the proper time. And a further 360 acres of oats and other crops this =
spring.=20
Some Orcharding was also planted over the winter.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I guess&nbsp;with the&nbsp;spring =
planting underway=20
Basalic's realized that getting&nbsp;nearly&nbsp;1000 acres Blessed in =
one=20
season is&nbsp;a nightmare&nbsp;and is really looking for some seed =
that's a bit=20
more hardy and hasn't been coddled by magic for the last hundred plus=20
years.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Don't worry to much =
Basalic, I wasn't=20
expecting the place to become self-sufficient in the first =
year.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Thorn</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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WAS: Re: [dq-pub] Quest for plant curing magics etc

I have always believed and played that a masterwork is required for Artisan skills, but it does
not need a GM sign-off.

If the player is happy enough with his choice of masterwork to stand in front of his peers and say
"this is what I did for Rk 8", then it's good enough.

Artisans skills don't have a big game effect, master rank in Artisan is not going to unbalance the
character or a party, they are primarily for character flavour and background.
If you decide to skimp on your masterwork, then you are only cheating yourself and cheapening your
character background.

And when Basalic spends a year with his hands in the dirt and goes on high level quest to achieve
his masterwork in Artisan, it raises the bar for the rest of us!
...must be time for some tall Poppy pruning... ;-}

Cheers, Stephen.

Mandos Mitchinson wrote:
>
>> As I recall, a GM once told me that master works were not
>> required for high ranks in artisan. Is there consensus on this?
>
> I had heard the same thing, but realistically artisan is where a masterwork
> is more appropriate not less,  although from a game mechanics perspective,
> it should be a little easier to perform than the regular skills.
>
> Mandos
> /s


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The Rulebook is fairly unhelpful with this, not listing any exceptions (even
for Languages) - people have been using common sense, I assume.

I've added it to the list of small tidy-ups that we might get around to
caring about.

http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Noticed_Rulebook_Issues

Cheers
Errol

-----Original Message-----
From: dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [mailto:dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz]On
Behalf Of Stephen Martin
Sent: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 16:19
To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz
Subject: [dq-pub] Artisan Masterworks


WAS: Re: [dq-pub] Quest for plant curing magics etc

I have always believed and played that a masterwork is required for Artisan
skills, but it does
not need a GM sign-off.

If the player is happy enough with his choice of masterwork to stand in
front of his peers and say
"this is what I did for Rk 8", then it's good enough.

Artisans skills don't have a big game effect, master rank in Artisan is not
going to unbalance the
character or a party, they are primarily for character flavour and
background.
If you decide to skimp on your masterwork, then you are only cheating
yourself and cheapening your
character background.

And when Basalic spends a year with his hands in the dirt and goes on high
level quest to achieve
his masterwork in Artisan, it raises the bar for the rest of us!
...must be time for some tall Poppy pruning... ;-}

Cheers, Stephen.

Mandos Mitchinson wrote:
>
>> As I recall, a GM once told me that master works were not
>> required for high ranks in artisan. Is there consensus on this?
>
> I had heard the same thing, but realistically artisan is where a
masterwork
> is more appropriate not less,  although from a game mechanics perspective,
> it should be a little easier to perform than the regular skills.
>
> Mandos
> /s


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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>The Rulebook is fairly unhelpful with this, not =
listing any exceptions (even for Languages) - people have been using =
common sense, I assume.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I've added it to the list of small tidy-ups that we =
might get around to caring about.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2><A =
HREF=3D"http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Noticed_Rulebook_=
Issues" =
TARGET=3D"_blank">http://www.dragonquest.org.nz/dqwiki/index.php/Noticed=
_Rulebook_Issues</A></FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Errol</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>From: dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.nz">mailto:dq-pub-owner@dq.sf.org.=
nz</A>]On</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Behalf Of Stephen Martin</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Sent: Tuesday, 16 October 2007 16:19</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>To: dq-pub@dq.sf.org.nz</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>Subject: [dq-pub] Artisan Masterworks</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>WAS: Re: [dq-pub] Quest for plant curing magics =
etc</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>I have always believed and played that a masterwork =
is required for Artisan skills, but it does</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>not need a GM sign-off.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>If the player is happy enough with his choice of =
masterwork to stand in front of his peers and say</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&quot;this is what I did for Rk 8&quot;, then it's =
good enough.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Artisans skills don't have a big game effect, master =
rank in Artisan is not going to unbalance the</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>character or a party, they are primarily for =
character flavour and background.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>If you decide to skimp on your masterwork, then you =
are only cheating yourself and cheapening your</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>character background.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>And when Basalic spends a year with his hands in the =
dirt and goes on high level quest to achieve</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>his masterwork in Artisan, it raises the bar for the =
rest of us!</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>...must be time for some tall Poppy pruning... =
;-}</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cheers, Stephen.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Mandos Mitchinson wrote:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;&gt; As I recall, a GM once told me that master =
works were not</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;&gt; required for high ranks in artisan. Is =
there consensus on this?</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; I had heard the same thing, but realistically =
artisan is where a masterwork</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; is more appropriate not less,&nbsp; although =
from a game mechanics perspective,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; it should be a little easier to perform than =
the regular skills.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt;</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; Mandos</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>&gt; /s</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

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>WAS: Re: [dq-pub] Quest for plant curing magics etc
>
>I have always believed and played that a masterwork is required for 
>Artisan skills, but it does
>not need a GM sign-off.
>
>If the player is happy enough with his choice of masterwork to stand 
>in front of his peers and say
>"this is what I did for Rk 8", then it's good enough.
>
>Artisans skills don't have a big game effect, master rank in Artisan 
>is not going to unbalance the
>character or a party, they are primarily for character flavour and background.
>If you decide to skimp on your masterwork, then you are only 
>cheating yourself and cheapening your
>character background.
>
>And when Basalic spends a year with his hands in the dirt and goes 
>on high level quest to achieve
>his masterwork in Artisan, it raises the bar for the rest of us!
>...must be time for some tall Poppy pruning... ;-}

I was always under the impression that it was only adventuring skills 
that was exempt from the masterwork requirements. Certainly some of 
the entries in the wiki seem to suggest some rather impressive stuff 
was done in order to receive master ranks in artisan.

I was hoping that spending time out just to get the agriculture and 
horticultural systems going at Bolton Manor would be enough, but I 
was told no, something special was still required as well. I still 
intent to write up the procedures at least, but yes, Basalic will be 
out of play until Winter 08.

Keith


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I have just noticed (and added to the wiki errata page) that  
Herbalist potions have a volume of 1 quart but a weight of 1/2 a pound.

One of these must be wrong.

cheers,

Clare


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